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National Federation Discussion / Re: Clinic Topics
« Last post by Magician on March 09, 2018, 05:09:37 PM »
Ralph...those are all great tips for officials at all levels! Unfortunately state associations that aren't officials and only want to follow the NFHS mechanics criticize you if you each thing you mention. The NFHS manual could be updated with some of those things, especially teh deep/wide referee. If you have good wing officials you should never have a close measurement. They can rule the runner short or not, spot appropriately, and then signal to you the result.

A couple other good ones are free kick positioning and back judge depth. We should allow the deep officials on free kicks at the goal line or 10 yard line if a team can kick it deeper. If you are at the 20/30 and the ball threatens the pylon you'll be guessing on touchback/kick out of bounds. The back judge should be able to start 20-25 yards depending on the type of athletes and expected play. If you have speedy skill players, the extra 5-10 yards still gives him good coverage but a better chance to keep the necessary cushion.
National Federation Discussion / Re: A little help please
« Last post by Magician on March 09, 2018, 04:59:24 PM »
Indiana uses a system that is 50% coach/AD vote and 50% other factors. The other factors are things like years licensed, years of playoff experience, playoff advancement, association attendance, and games worked (self reported scheduled since it's done as part of your application at the beginning of the year). Test score used to be a part of it, but they removed it last year. You still have to pass the test to remain eligible. Everything is on a scale of 1-5 and weighted. For example, you get full credit (5 points) for years licensed if the top 3 guys on your crew average 10 years of experience. It then scales down. I think max for playoff experience is 6 years for the top 3. Meeting attendance is 8 for football. Most associations will have 10-12 meetings and the state offers 2-4 online meetings that count. The summer clinic counts as well. You need to have 8 varsity games to get full credit, and we have 9 regular season weeks. To get full credit for playoff advancement your top 3 guys need to have worked a state final. A semi-final is 4, regional final is 3, sectional final is 2.

Most crews get full credit except for the advancement portion. That means the real differentiator is still the coach/AD vote. The coaches are the ones that are supposed to vote, but the application is accessed by the AD account so it could be one or the other or both that complete the vote. All schools are required to vote and are asked to only vote for the crews they had in the past 3 years. The IHSAA has no way to track who those schools are though so they let every school vote for every crew. Some crews get 80-100 votes. Most get 25-35. The general thought is the crews with 80-100 votes are getting a lot of extra votes from people who know them for various reasons (i.e. they have guys who work other sports especially basketball and baseball, they have guys are/were coaches/administrators, they have been doing this so long they know a LOT of people) and all those votes would be positive. This greatly increases their average score. The 80-100 vote crews will get a 4.7/4.8 average while the 25-35 vote crews will usually top out around 4.3/4.4 with many lower. They may have the same number of 1/2/3 votes but the extra 5s bring up the average much higher.

Once all the votes are in the crews are rated 1-x depending on how many there are. There are 125-130 playoff games week 1 and last year we had 142 crews apply. Week 2 has 96 games, week 3 has 48 games and so forth to the finals with 6 games. Starting with the sectional final round (48 games) at least half the crews have to have never worked a state final. That is determined by the referee. It's possible there is a crew with 3-4 guys who have worked a state final but now have a different referee because their state referee retired. I call these recycled crews. They still get full credit on the points because they have 3 state final officials, but they are on the "new" side because their current referee wasn't the white hat for their state final game. Of the 24 "new" sectional final crews it seems 6-8 of them are recycled crews. As they advance to the regional and semi-state rounds the percentage of recycled crews gets higher. It's not impossible for a truly "new" crew to advance, but it can be very difficult. They have very little margin for error in the vote.

A brand new crew can only work 2 rounds but usually only get 1 because they don't know enough coaches/ADs to get enough votes. A recycled crew is still considered new for advancement, but the can work up to 3 rounds. Any crew on their second year could advance to the third round (sectional final). From there you can't work a later round unless you worked the prior round in a previous year. Once you have worked a state final you can only advance to the sectional final the following year and then one additional round each year. That means a state final crew can only work a final every 4 years. Of the 24 crews that work a state final over a 4-year period, I would estimate 16-18 of them return in the next 4 years. It's hard to break into that group, but if you keep most of the guys together you'll likely return as long as you stay together.

It's a really bad system because quality of crew doesn't really play into it. It's not really an old boys network because it's not based on an individual or group getting together to decide ranking. It's based largely on the collective vote and the more people you know that vote the more likely you are to advance. So the ranking isn't a measure of quality. It's just a number assigned to each crew so the state can assign the crews.

I agree with FLAHL. No matter what system is used the same number of crews will be upset. There really isn't a way to create a completely subjective method of evaluation. I've heard the same issues with NFL ratings. They are graded on every play so theoretically the highest graded officials are working the playoffs. But I was told once they know by mid-season who they want to work the Super Bowl and all the sudden all their 50/50 calls are graded as correct.

Control what you can control. Work the games you are assigned to the best of your ability. And have fun doing this. Bad assignment processes aren't personal, and they aren't intended to be a reflection of your performance. Everybody wants a process that puts them in a state final, and there are only so many spots there.
National Federation Discussion / Re: Clinic Topics
« Last post by ChicagoZebra on March 09, 2018, 04:07:34 PM »
Any way someone can scan and upload it? For us young whippersnappers without a fax machine.  nAnA
National Federation Discussion / Re: Clinic Topics
« Last post by KWH on March 09, 2018, 03:57:16 PM »
Ralph -

My fax machine spit out all 4 pages of your Rule 10 Sermon

Good Stuff

My thanks to you from the Left Coast
National Federation Discussion / Re: A little help please
« Last post by prab on March 09, 2018, 03:54:35 PM »
Wisconsin - Coaches may rate officials.  Some do, some don't.  Officials can find out which schools submitted ratings, but can not learn who gave what rating.  Ratings are not even provided in a generic form.  Even if ratings are accurate, it is impossible for officials to use them as a basis for improvement.  I believe that the ratings are used solely as a CYA for the state association to assign officials to play off games.  Coaches are discouraged, but still allowed to rate officials who have not worked a game for that school during the season.
National Federation Discussion / Re: A little help please
« Last post by SouthGARef on March 09, 2018, 02:18:32 PM »
We'll let ya know when we figure it out. :)
Texas Topics / Re: Wireless Headset
« Last post by ElvisLives on March 09, 2018, 11:21:46 AM »

Please explain the "Throat mic."


Sorry, I'm not Copedaddy, but if you are as old as I am, you may remember watching "12 O'clock High" and seeing the B-17 bomber pilots & crew press a "choker" they wore around their necks, tight up against their larynx's.  That was a throat mic.  It would pick up sound vibrations through the throat, and convert to electrical signals that got transmitted to the headphones of the other crew.  Same thing here, but far more advanced.  Shouldn't need to press the microphone against the larynx.  They are sensitive enough to pick up sounds without having to do that.
The disadvantages are minor discomfort comfort, and the sound quality is not quite as good.  A little bit of a 'cosmetic' issue, too.  Some folks may not want to have something around their throat.


Texas Topics / Re: Wireless Headset
« Last post by Ump62 on March 09, 2018, 10:52:37 AM »

Please explain the "Throat mic."

National Federation Discussion / Re: A little help please
« Last post by FLAHL on March 09, 2018, 10:48:31 AM »
The state assigns us a rating of 1, 2, or 3 based on years of experience and test score.  Only 1 & 2 rated officials are eligible to work playoff games.

Each association submits a list of playoff crews to the state.  We usually have 5 or 6 crews, and they are ranked 1 through X based on evaluations throughout the year.  Each crew is evaluated twice, and the evaluators are (mostly) guys who have been with the association for quite a while but no longer work on the field.  We evaluate the things you'd expect to see - mechanics, pre game activities, hustle, uniforms, communication, rules, etc.  The biggest complaint that we have is consistency (or lack of consistency) among the evaluators, but the process is subjective so, as Ralph said, "Most find it fair, some don't, and some wouldn't find anything fair."

If I could change anything about our process, I'd have the evaluations done like olympic scoring - everybody starts with a 10, and then may have deductions for things that are not up to par.  But there's no perfect way to do this.  A couple of years ago, there was a lot of moaning and groaning among the NFL officials about the guy selected as the WH.  I remember thinking that if they can't get this right at their level, we have no chance at ours.
National Federation Discussion / Re: A little help please
« Last post by Ralph Damren on March 09, 2018, 09:25:20 AM »
The evolution of our rating system came about to apply officials for a pool used by the state association in state games. Our state establishes available officials from a combination of coach's votes and those in the top 25% of their chapter via rating. Chapter assigners and the state football committee gather and fill 28 slots (7 man crews for 4 classes). An official can only work a championship game every other year.

Each chapter can develop their own rating system, ours is :

30% NFHS Part II taken on website.
40% Fellow official's rating - four components:
   (1) Rule knowledge
   (2) Game control
   (3) Teamwork
   (4) Appearance and hustle
20% Meeting attendance
 8% Seniority
 2% Evaluation of fellow officials

Our chapter's assignor may use your rating in providing assignments. If you are rated #36 and there are only 7 games (5-man crews) ,you may not get a game unless someone above you is sick/dead/in jail.

Most find it fair :) , some don't  >:( , some wouldn't find anything fair :puke: it's really time for some lobster chowder !!
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