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National Federation Discussion / Re: Interesting Punt Play
« Last post by NVFOA_Ump on Today at 02:21:04 PM »
Ralph has some good "ifs" here but based on the officials actions on the field they appear to have a valid recovery of the loose kick behind the NZ (I see no bags down when A picks up the ball - right in front of the wing official who's got the line) and he then trails the play, killing the clock after A is down.  I'm thinking legal recovery and advance by A with the penalty to be enforced.

Probably would have been a good mechanic to have a bag down at the recovery spot (end of the kick) since the box is behind the official and would have been an excellent aid in selling or correcting the call.
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when the substitute reaches the field and informs the player that he has been substituted for he then has 3 seconds to start leaving the field. The old "12 men in the huddle" used to be a foul several years ago. Amazingly enough coaches who weren't coaching when it was a rule still use the terminology!

Just a note. The substitute doesn't have to inform the replaced player to become a player himself. Once a substitute does any one of 5 things in 2-32-15, he then becomes a player and at that moment the team has 3 seconds for the replaced player to begin leaving the field (not be off of the field). One of those 5 things is just entering a huddle, which is what happened in the OP.
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At what point is the offense required to subscribe to the "only 11" players? When 12 have been on the field for more than 3 seconds
Is there relevance to when the R hits the RFP? No

I think both of my questions above come into the equation with the original post...

Both the R & the U were doing pre-snap duties prior to the RFP and neither of us was watching who came in the game for team A.  As the R was retuning from the sideline discussion with the coach he glanced at the U (me) saw that I had just placed the ball down and signaled the RFP.  Since we did not know how long A had been in the huddle with 12, and when we did observe the 12th player was already heading off, do we have anything?   
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The old "12 men in the huddle" used to be a foul several years ago.
This has NEVER been a rule in Federation. And NEVER is a long time.
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Texas Topics / Re: Mechanics - Keys
« Last post by ElvisLives on Today at 01:02:58 PM »
Cowtown,

You won't find everything in a single location.  You'll need to review the manual thoroughly.  But, in the TASO Football Officials Manual for a Crew of 5 Officials, Section 6 - General Game Duties, Article 3, Item A-3 and Item F-2 prescribes the R to identify the tackle on his side of the ball as his primary key. 
Section 13 - Forward Passes, Article 1, Item A prescribes the R to maintain focus on the potential passer when he is threatened, and the passer until there is no longer a threat of a foul against the passer.
Section 11 - Plays from Scrimmage, Article 2, in particular, discusses keys for the for the wings and B, in depth, for the passing game.

Generally, the R has the O tackle to his side. The U has the O GCG, and the wing opposite the R has the O tackle on his side (in addition to any receiver key he may have).  The wings have their receiver key (and the near O tackle, if opposite the R).  The B has his receiver key(s).

Keys are things to check AT THE SNAP, and see what is happening.  If there is a threat of foul by/on your key, stay with him. If no threat, find something else to look at.  If a pass is released, prioritize the area where the ball will land (but never give up on a situation that may lead to a foul(s)).

If you think there are gaps in the manual, let your District Director know, so he can review with someone on the Mechanics Committee.

Robert


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The old "12 men in the huddle" used to be a foul several years ago. Amazingly enough coaches who weren't coaching when it was a rule still use the terminology!

They are not magically remembering this rule from several years ago. They are applying what they see on Saturday and Sunday to Friday night. What's new?
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Interesting Punt Play
« Last post by Ralph Damren on Today at 11:14:35 AM »
IMHO, some "ifs"...

(1) the HL should have bean bagged the spot that K scooped up the ball IF he felt the kick had traveled beyond the neutral zone (6-2-3) as it can't be advanced;

(2) IF the kick had traveled BEYOND the EXPANDED neutral zone (6-2-5) before K got to it, you would have first touching;

(3) IF #2 was the call, then R's foul would fall under PSK, IF the foul had also occurred beyond the expanded neutral zone (2-16-2h-3);

(4) BUT the HL, who rules IF the kick was beyond either, appeared to allow the play to continue which would indicate that he didn't.

Interesting post, Bossman, time for some lobster chowdeah  :)....
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when the substitute reaches the field and informs the player that he has been substituted for he then has 3 seconds to start leaving the field. The old "12 men in the huddle" used to be a foul several years ago. Amazingly enough coaches who weren't coaching when it was a rule still use the terminology!
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At what point is the offense required to subscribe to the "only 11" players?  Is there relevance to when the R hits the RFP?

I think both of my questions above come into the equation with the original post...
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if there were 12 in the huddle for the entire period it took you to spot the ball and you know it was more than 3 seconds then you see him leave it is IS and should heae been called. Saw a game 2 weeks ago it happened twice almost identical situations and one was called and the second time the same did it no call. WTF?
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