Author Topic: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)  (Read 17353 times)

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2017, 11:52:42 AM »
If a player in the act of throwing a pass is a defenseless player, do we now have a foul if the QB is hit just as (or just after) he throws a pass?
No, the laundry list of defenseless players is intended to indicate that a player in a venerable position needs to be observed a little closer by the officials to ensure the contact is legal and not excessive. This also gives rule support to a similar list published in the case book. On the questionnaire that many of us took, 85% were in favor of a published list.

Online Stinterp

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2017, 12:48:39 PM »
Bossman's video is now a dead ball foul as soon as ball is kicked,  5 yards and rekick.

Online KWH

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2017, 01:46:54 PM »
There's no way that's actually the rule, right? Maybe this is a bad assumption, but I would assume that the rule only permits an offended team to start the clock on the snap, but doesn't allow them to supercede the other rules to start on the RFP.

No, that is not the rule and for (among others) the aforementioned reasons:

Here is a typical situation where the rule change could be applied:

Team A is leading 10-9 with the clock running in the 4th quarter.
The white hat blows the RFP with 2:15 on the game clock.
With 1:55 remaining A77 commits a False Start Foul.
Under pre-2017 Rules, the Referee had to use his judgement (and Rule 3-4-6) to determine if the clock should start on the Snap or the RFP. (It was felt that Referees were inconsistent in this situation) DUH!!!
Under the 2017 rule, the Referee shall, by rule, have the offended captain choose if he/she would like the clock to start on the Snap rather than on the RFP.

Simple Change - It Eliminates a little glitch in the rules that, even though it directly violated the Coaches Code of Ethics, some coaches allegedly COACHED, to gain an unfair advantage. Many argue that coaches never coached players to do that, and, in my heart I believe that to be true!
However, right wrong or indifferent, that opportunistic door has been shut. 

« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 11:29:15 AM by KWH »

Offline kenref1

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2017, 02:37:19 PM »
There's no way that's actually the rule, right? Maybe this is a bad assumption, but I would assume that the rule only permits an offended team to start the clock on the snap, but doesn't allow them to supercede the other rules to start on the RFP.

I'm interpreting it as Team A trails by 7, they have the ball, 3rd and 4, 1:25 left in the 4th quarter with the clock running. Team B encroaches. The way I see it is Team A now has the option to have the clock start on the ready or elect to have it start on the snap after the penalty enforcement.

Online KWH

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2017, 03:31:14 PM »
I'm interpreting it as Team A trails by 7, they have the ball, 3rd and 4, 1:25 left in the 4th quarter with the clock running. Team B encroaches. The way I see it is Team A now has the option to have the clock start on the ready or elect to have it start on the snap after the penalty enforcement.

Yes. You would be interpreting the new rule correctly Ken!!!
For clarification however, they would only have the option of choosing to start the clock on the snap. If the do not choose to start on the snap, in your scenario, the clock would start on the ready as per rule 3-4-2

EDIT: To be clear, In either case, A can take the 5 yard penalty.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:40:32 AM by KWH »

Offline VALJ

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2017, 03:50:35 PM »
Ralph, is 3-4-7 only intended to apply in cases similar to when the NCAA would do a zap-10, where the clock is running and somebody commits a dead ball foul?

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2017, 06:23:42 AM »
PLAY:  Team A trails by 2 points late in either half.  They complete a pass to the B-10 yard line, and B22 is flagged for DPI or RTP.  The game clock shows 0:03.

Does A now have the snap/RFP option?

Offline kenref1

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 07:15:45 AM »
PLAY:  Team A trails by 2 points late in either half.  They complete a pass to the B-10 yard line, and B22 is flagged for DPI or RTP.  The game clock shows 0:03.

Does A now have the snap/RFP option?

The way I'm interpreting this new rule, if A accepts the penalty and the clock normally would have started on the ready, Team A has the option to have it start on the snap.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2017, 10:03:09 AM »
Ralph, is 3-4-7 only intended to apply in cases similar to when the NCAA would do a zap-10, where the clock is running and somebody commits a dead ball foul?
It could also include live ball fouls - note 'Bama's post on such.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2017, 10:04:46 AM »
PLAY:  Team A trails by 2 points late in either half.  They complete a pass to the B-10 yard line, and B22 is flagged for DPI or RTP.  The game clock shows 0:03.

Does A now have the snap/RFP option?
You are correct, they do.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2017, 10:05:53 AM »
The way I'm interpreting this new rule, if A accepts the penalty and the clock normally would have started on the ready, Team A has the option to have it start on the snap.
You are also correct.

Offline VALJ

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2017, 10:58:32 AM »
It could also include live ball fouls - note 'Bama's post on such.

Wow.  I like it, as I've always hated when A has the ball late in the game, picks up ten yards so B accepts the penalty the prevent the first down, but gets another 25 seconds to burn.  That's a pretty significant change, though.  Kinda surprised to see that buried so far down the press release.

Offline Magician

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2017, 06:04:42 PM »
Wow.  I like it, as I've always hated when A has the ball late in the game, picks up ten yards so B accepts the penalty the prevent the first down, but gets another 25 seconds to burn.  That's a pretty significant change, though.  Kinda surprised to see that buried so far down the press release.
The referee already had the discretion to start it on the snap if they felt A would benefit by starting on the ready. In many cases where a team will choose to start on the snap, the R likely would have done it that way anyway. This is just another way of addressing it. Remembering to ask the offended team to make sure will be the biggest change.

Online KWH

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2017, 01:22:25 PM »
The referee already has the discretion to start it on the snap if he feels the offending team would benefit by starting on the ready. In many cases where a team will choose to start on the snap, the R likely would have done it that way anyway. This is just another way of addressing it. Remembering to ask the offended team will be the biggest change.
You hit that one on the head Brian!!!
Additionally, how many R's will be asking the defense if they want to start the clock on, say, OPI on an incomplete pass because, well, they didn't actually READ or comprehend the new rule, and they were cracking jokes and not paying any attention during the clinic.
Oh, wait, were never gonna train those guys anyway!!!  hEaDbAnG
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 11:29:50 AM by KWH »

Offline Badger1

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2017, 06:33:46 PM »
Imagine all the deer in the headlight looks your going to get from the captains when you include this with the penalty options considering most schools have a different captain every game. 

Offline SouthGARef

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2017, 07:13:04 PM »
Imagine all the deer in the headlight looks your going to get from the captains when you include this with the penalty options considering most schools have a different captain every game.

Easy solution to that, but I won't stir up that debate again.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2017, 08:30:09 AM »
Patience and calmness, when everyone else might be exited or confused, is still one of our most important attributes.

Online KWH

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2017, 05:21:15 PM »
Imagine all the deer in the headlight looks your going to get from the captains when you include this with the penalty options considering most schools have a different captain every game.
First: Officials need to completely comprehend and understand the rule and the typical times it will occur.
Second: Coaches need to completely comprehend and understand the rule and the typical times it will occur.
Third: We need to completely explain the options to the captain (Sometimes this means coaching him/her) so that they may make an informed and correct (Sometimes this means coaching him/her) decision.
Fourth: Don't ever allow a captain make the wrong decision! (Sometimes this means coaching him/her)

Offline bossman72

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2017, 09:32:13 PM »
Imagine all the deer in the headlight looks your going to get from the captains when you include this with the penalty options considering most schools have a different captain every game. 

This is why I don't ask captains anything, ever.  If I need info, I go to the head coach.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2017, 07:22:09 AM »
IMHO, if the choice is obvious ...team B up 40-0 when team A false starts w/ :30 left in game... we would treat it like accepting/declining a penalty. Just move on without putting the kids in position of making a mistake.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2017, 08:23:51 AM »
This is why I don't ask captains anything, ever.  If I need info, I go to the head coach.

Why not just include it, like the rule suggests, and when (in those relatively few instances) an obviously bad choice is made, or there's obvious confusion, take the time to explain it more completely.  HS Football is a learning opportunity and even deer have to be taught how to deal with headlights.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2017, 08:23:55 AM »
I understand the new pop-up rule is written to stop possible injuries from a horde of players in which most players are looking up waiting for a ball to come down, and a few other players punishing those paying attention to the ball with blindside hits.

If a kicker practices and perfects kicking the ball with a spin towards the ground so it hits 3/5 yards downfield (i.e. not 'immediately'), then pops up to cause the same situation, is this something that is still legal, or are we looking at the spirit of this rule?


Offline VALJ

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2017, 08:47:38 AM »
Easy solution to that, but I won't stir up that debate again.

+1.  No, plus a lot more than one... :)

Offline Magician

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2017, 08:52:35 AM »
I understand the new pop-up rule is written to stop possible injuries from a horde of players in which most players are looking up waiting for a ball to come down, and a few other players punishing those paying attention to the ball with blindside hits.

If a kicker practices and perfects kicking the ball with a spin towards the ground so it hits 3/5 yards downfield (i.e. not 'immediately'), then pops up to cause the same situation, is this something that is still legal, or are we looking at the spirit of this rule?
No because that's not likely to get the ball as high as a pop-up kick. I haven't heard it in the context of the NFHS rule, but when the NCAA came out with their rule they also stated it's hard to discern a pop-up kick from a pooch kick. This was true for both players and officials. The resulting action was very similar so the player and/or official may not realize a pop-up kick has already hit the ground and treat it like a pooch kick. I never thought it was hard to discern, but that was part of the discussion at the time. That would definitely not be the case if a ball hopped 3-5 yards away from the kicker.

Online KWH

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Re: 2017 NFHS Football Rule Changes (Release Date Feb 22, 2017)
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2017, 11:26:19 AM »
This is why I don't ask captains anything, ever.  If I need info, I go to the head coach.

That must make your coin toss ceremony a little awkward!
I get your point, and it admittedly it works quite well in other codes.
However, in NFHS contests, and until the Rules Book changes, the NFHS Rules Book requires us to receive the choice from the offended captains. See 10-1-1 There is a specific reason the Rule is written and remains that way.
Take your time, and explain to the captain all of his choices. The Rules book does not preclude us from "Assisting" or "Steering" the offended captain into the making the correct choice!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 11:37:32 AM by KWH »