Author Topic: SAT crew in 3aD1  (Read 20739 times)

Offline FatboyHL

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2015, 01:50:40 PM »
Thought not starting the clock was the right thing.  You are supported either way by rule or discretion.  The second targeting I think was a good pick up. Good job guys. 

Offline TXMike

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2015, 02:11:49 PM »
I did not see the 2d one but have heard differing descriptions. Even if the hitter's shoulder hit the head or neck area, it would be targeting.  The only thing that I think can change that is if you judge the receiver was changing his body position before the hit and brought his head or neck area down to where what would have been a blow to the chest or midsection becomes a blow to the head or neck area.

Offline TexLJ

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2015, 03:10:09 PM »
I also noticed the clock start on the snap. I was wondering if you were going to do that and I think it was a good call.

On the first targeting call, you can see #7 starting to get into it with another player toward the end of the play and then they move off camera.  I'm curious what happened there.  Did he head butt the defender?

The second call was very close. IMO he led with the shoulder but the contact was high, although the camera angle was from behind the receiver.  When it happened real time, I immediately thought it was targeting.

Offline FatboyHL

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2015, 03:59:43 PM »
I did not see the 2d one but have heard differing descriptions. Even if the hitter's shoulder hit the head or neck area, it would be targeting.  The only thing that I think can change that is if you judge the receiver was changing his body position before the hit and brought his head or neck area down to where what would have been a blow to the chest or midsection becomes a blow to the head or neck area.
Not trying to cop out, but 7 man would have helped tremendously on this one.  He would have had the best angle.  L had the same as the camera angle and BJ reacted immediately as he should have.  After seeing the replay the receiver body is coming down to the hit.  IMO.  Thing is you come together like you did and if there is any doubt in the mind of the flagging official you do as you did. 

Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2015, 04:02:53 PM »
Great job TXMike

Question, what was said to prompt the disconcerting signals call on the defense?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2015, 05:37:26 PM »
Great job TXMike

Question, what was said to prompt the disconcerting signals call on the defense?

Having done the fouling team you're asking about, I know exactly what happened.  We flagged them too!!!  They must not get very experienced officials through the regular season if they let this stuff go on.

Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2015, 05:46:04 PM »
What do they do that gets the flag?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2015, 05:50:19 PM »
Defensive stemming called by the down lineman, causing the O to false start, very obviously done to cause them to jump.

Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2015, 05:58:18 PM »
Defensive stemming called by a lineman is perfectly legal as long as they aren't using the offensives cadence to stem

Offline TexDoc

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2015, 06:04:30 PM »
That's why you're a first year guy.

Read up.

Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2015, 06:10:38 PM »
Stemming is essentially a defensive play, you cheated the defense out of running their play, unless the movement was an abrupt movement not common to the game or let's say the offense used the word "Hut" to snap the ball and the defense used the same word or "but" or "mut" (something blatantly close) it's not a foul...I'm third year guy now

Offline TexDoc

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2015, 06:17:36 PM »
Um, yeah, I know the rule.  What they are doing is not legal.  When a down lineman makes the call to shift and the QB has started his cadence, we have a problem.  What their shift.  Are they really stemming or obviously trying to draw the O?

Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2015, 06:26:10 PM »
They are absolutely allowed to call for a stem anytime they want even if the QB has started his cadence, and since they actually changed alignment and the movement was smooth it's not up for you to say that they were trying to draw the offense to jump, it's an offensive game nowadays but let's not totally handcuff the defense by misapplying a rule

Offline TexDoc

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2015, 06:41:55 PM »
The D can stem, but a lineman cannot make a verbal command to have them stem with the obvious attempt to make the O jump.  This is something that has to be covered in the pregame with the coaches.  Does your D stem?  Who calls it?  This is what we will and will not allow.  What this particular team has done all year should not have been allowed.  They get into the playoffs and crews call it correctly and teams don't understand. 

Offline FatboyHL

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SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2015, 06:48:25 PM »
The move they made was exactly what you are describing. Not smooth and abrupt your words. In addition they are using a call by the nose guard directly over the ball. If so watch the reaction from coach Rhodes he knew what the call was and why.


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Offline TexDoc

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2015, 06:53:23 PM »
The move they made was exactly what you are describing. Not smooth and abrupt your words. In addition they are using a call by the nose guard directly over the ball. If so watch the reaction from coach Rhodes he knew what the call was and why.


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Bingo.  My crew worked them earlier in the playoffs and we talked about this in pregame.  When it happened during the game, we had disconcerting signals.  It looks like, after the crew called this in the game last night, they stopped doing it. 

This rule needs to be clarified and all of us need to get on the same page.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 06:55:40 PM by TexDoc »

Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2015, 07:04:45 PM »
Y'all both screwed the defense, it does not matter who calls the signal
the movement was quick but very smooth...
they got in the playoffs and had it called on them incorrectly...
the rule doesn't need to be clarified its pretty clear cut and most crews understand
the offense knows the snap count and should be held accountable to that, the defense is allowed to run "plays" and shouldn't be punished for doing something legal

Offline FatboyHL

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SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2015, 07:05:16 PM »
I do remember them stemming but it was without the nose guard barking a signal and was not as abrupt as was the movement that was flagged. Trust Doc and me we went through this extensively a couple of years ago.


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Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2015, 07:09:19 PM »
the nose guard can "bark a signal" why is that so difficult to understand? the cornerback can "bark a signal" the linebacker can "bark a signal" the 3 tech can "bark a signal", literally anyone can "bark a signal"...

Offline FatboyHL

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SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2015, 07:15:03 PM »
You are correct it does not matter who calls the signal however the defensive player over the ball has to be so far above board. I have been around the game my entire life and the reaction of the Yoe coach is all I need to know that the call was correct. Again I watched this entire game and watched the defense for Yoe stem without the abrupt movement and signal 


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Offline Rulesman

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2015, 07:15:36 PM »
Y'all both screwed the defense,
Tone it down first_year_guy. This is not open season on other officials. One warning is all you get. Next step is vacation. Not a threat. A promise. Understand?
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline first_year_guy

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2015, 07:17:28 PM »
my bad my bad, TecDoc grumpiness rubbed off on me

Offline Rulesman

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2015, 07:19:30 PM »
 :thumbup
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline TXMike

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Re: SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2015, 07:20:56 PM »
They are absolutely allowed to call for a stem anytime they want even if the QB has started his cadence, and since they actually changed alignment and the movement was smooth it's not up for you to say that they were trying to draw the offense to jump, it's an offensive game nowadays but let's not totally handcuff the defense by misapplying a rule
please direct your attention to the 2012 CFO Bulletin 3 play 3.  I would post it but as a "1st year guy" uou would likely gain more by researching how to find it .   

Offline FatboyHL

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SAT crew in 3aD1
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2015, 07:26:42 PM »
Ouch.


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