Author Topic: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?  (Read 3693 times)

Offline houstonjaguar

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Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« on: February 23, 2016, 06:59:15 AM »
This play from a reality show that will remin nameless has started making the rounds on facebook. I think the correct all was made, maybe short of the ejection.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=718653201603890&id=305466866255861

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 07:51:54 AM »
Several things to consider:

1.  Kids that age should not be playing tackle football.  That's my opinion.

2.  Some parents are going to let their kids play (make them play in some cases), so there should be a weight limit for these leagues.  Some kids develop much earlier and the weight and strength disparities can be very significant.

3.  Yes, at this level, this should be PF for unnecessary roughness.  There was no reason for the big kid to do what he did. 

4.  If you don't flag the coach for being that far out on the field at this level, you are asking for lots of problems.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 01:41:00 PM by TexDoc »

Offline TXMike

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 01:16:24 PM »
C'mon Doc - You are trying to insert your opinions (well stated in bullets 1 and 2) into the ruling at 3.  The fact that you would even use the term "big kid" shows you are biased.  If a strong kid the same size as the runner did this would you still say foul?   I doubt it.  Fact is, 1 - Kids this age ARE playing football and 2 - THIS league does not have an equitable weight standard so you often see huge size mismatches in the kids.  The coaches and parents know that going in and accept it.  (Notice I did not say the kids  know and accept cause I am not so sure they have much to say in this decision too often). 

Last season they had an "amazon" girl playing.  She was bigger than everyone on the field it seemed.  But she was not aggressive and routinely got pushed around.  It seemed she really did not want to be there.  That happens with some big kids. (Clearly not with the one in this video)

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 01:45:12 PM »
What is the main reason we are out there as officials, above all others?  If you keep that in mind, then flagging the kid was the right move and maybe he won't do that again.  It might save a smaller kid's future by preventing a concussion.  That is inserting one's opinion into the safety at this level, but then again, that's why I refuse to work this level and have not in over 20 years. 

Offline TXMike

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 01:50:45 PM »
I have always had a problem with officials writing their own rules.  We are there to make sure the game is played safely WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE RULES.  There are vicious low blocks that you and I both know are terribly dangerous but due to the way they wrote the rule, the blocks were legal.  Are you flagging those?  Even in HS there are kids who are noticeably larger and more athletic than other kids.  Do tey get held to a different standard because they happen to be a physical specimen?

By penalizing the act in this video is we validate the little guy's parent's screaming for a flag when they should be focused on "SEE WHAT CAN LEGALLY HAPPEN TO YOUR LITTLE GUY!!!"

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 02:21:40 PM »
We aren't going to agree on this one.  Do you call a 7th grade game exactly as you would a varsity game?  HECK no, you'd be there all day. Think about it.  These are very young boys and the game needs to be called appropriate to their age.  Safety is top priority. 

Offline TXMike

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 02:30:45 PM »
Of course not called the same way.  But the difference is that something that is NOT a foul in HS is DARN sure not being flagged at 7th grade.  There are things that are flagged in HS but not in 7th grade. But not the other way around which is what you are advocating for

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 03:10:40 PM »
Your logic stinks...

Quit being so black and white, sir. Keep safety at the top of your priorities and you'd see it differently.  Or maybe not.  I've known you a long time.

 deadhorse: deadhorse: deadhorse: yEs:

Offline TXMike

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 03:23:09 PM »
It stinks because it does not fit what you want.  Would you have preferred that instead of Albert flinging the kid to the ground that he executed a form tackle and driven the kid backwards before falling on him?   The runner got off a lot easier than he could have.   If the tackler had the kid stopped and was carrying him backwards before flinging to the ground then there was a foul.  Remember,,,him that runneth with the prolate spheroid putith himself of danger of great harm. 

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 06:25:55 AM »
Let's pick this apart because I see two distinct parts of this "tackle." 

First, tackler grabs runner and controls him

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5zu0vaqmyc6f9i/Capture.JPG?dl=0

Second, tackler, after controlling runner, starts to sling runner

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vob48gpm5sqd3n/Capture1.JPG?dl=0

I'm okay up to this point, then the tackler throws runner to the ground, the second action

https://www.dropbox.com/s/96huwavy8wiytgl/Capture3.JPG?dl=0

The second action was clearly intended to injure and was unnecessary. 

We won't agree so this can go on all....day....long....

Offline TXMike

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 07:17:49 AM »
LMAO..I give you the one way this could be a foul and you jump on it!   

We have talked about the issue of using still images "to prove" anything for years. It is unreliable as heck.  If you watch the video it was a quick continuous action.  What is the kid supposed to do, just stand there holding on to the mighty mite?  You know that is not what kids are taught.  The ball carrier needs to be put on the ground or needs to be drive backwards.  The tackler did not get to the runner in a way that permitted him to drive him backwards (which would not have been much safer anyway).  Nobody forced the kid's parents to put him in that situation.  Maybe they now realize this is an activity not well suited for the kid at this age.  But I doubt it because you (and many others) had their sensibilities hurt and are validating their decision by saying what happened was not acceptable. 

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 08:44:18 AM »
all.......day..............long........

 deadhorse: LOL

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 10:14:03 PM »
Doc -- you're picking a fight you ain't gonna win.

A few years ago, a guy on my crew had an injury of some sort in his JV or frosh game. The kid's mom (or some lady) comes down to the field and tells my guy, "ya'll are just letting them play too rough." Huh? Anytime you start making emotional arguments where logic and facts should prevail, you need to stop.

Earlier, I was R for a JV game where the QB was hit (legally) a BUNCH. I couldn't believe how many times he was getting hit like right as he released the ball, and then a few more times when he ran around. He got the crap beat out of him, but stood there and took it. I was actually almost hoping I could flag something and later told the kid I admired the heck out of the way he stood in there. If its legal, its legal. If not, flag it, but you need at least an ARGUABLE rule reference to back it up. We don't have unnecessary roughness for LEGAL plays or hits. Strength and power are both FAIR advantages.

Offline joelw83

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 12:01:41 PM »
I think UNR would have been a good call.  Once he controlled him, he gave him an unnecessary slam to the ground.  There was no need for the extra force to punish.

In the NFL, granted it is the NFL, a tackle like that on the QB would be called.

No need for an ejection.  Just 15 yards.  But, the coach should have gotten a UNS. 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 12:03:52 PM by joelw83 »

Offline scrounge

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 05:16:54 PM »
I don't have any problem with the flag, either. He had him wrapped up and well under control, he only threw him down because he could and to punish him. Easily excessive and unnecessary to me. But not flagrant.

Offline NoVaBJ

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Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct or legal "tackle"?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 08:30:14 PM »
No foul on the tackle. A runner is subject to all sorts of mayhem. Even 10 year old runners.

The coaches invading the field are directed to leave.