Author Topic: 2015 Casebook Question.  (Read 2731 times)

Offline sczeebra

  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
2015 Casebook Question.
« on: March 25, 2016, 08:36:27 AM »
Play 3.4.2 Situation D: ???? Wouldn't the starting of the clock be predicated upon its status prior to the kick? As always help is needed and appreciated!

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 1268
  • FAN REACTION: +64/-22
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 09:11:27 AM »
I've quoted the case play below just to confirm.

We ALWAYS start/stop the clock based on the result of the play in which the foul happened.  In this play, the player returned the ball and was downed in bounds.  Therefore, the clock will start on the ready when the down is replayed.




3.4.2 SITUATION D: K11 punts the ball from a fourth and 10 situation. R1 catches the kick and returns 10 yards. During the down, but prior to the catch, K3 holds R2. R accepts the penalty.

RULING: After enforcement, the clock starts on the ready-for-play signal. (3-4-2b(3))

Offline VALJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2215
  • FAN REACTION: +81/-12
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2016, 09:24:32 AM »
Whether the clock is on the wind or the snap is based on what caused the previous play to end, per 3-4-3.

The summary one of my colleagues came up with is that for NFHS code, if any of the following 10 things happen during a play - the so-called "major clock stoppers" - the clock will start on the snap or when a free kick is legally touched:

a - the ball goes out of bounds
b - B or R is awarded a new series
c - either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick
d - the ball becomes dead behind either goal line
e - a legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete
f - a request for a charged, or radio/TV, timeout is granted
g - a period ends
h - a team attempts to consume time illegally
i - the penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted
j - a fair catch is made

In the casebook play noted, NONE of these items occurred during the down, so the clock will start on the ready for play. Compare that to 3.4.3 - in situation (a), the down ended because of a fair catch, so the clock next starts on the snap. Likewise, in situation (b), if R chooses the awarded fair catch, the clock would next start on the snap.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 09:26:55 AM by VALJ »

Offline LAZebra

  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-1
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2016, 10:06:13 AM »
Whether the clock is on the wind or the snap is based on what caused the previous play to end, per 3-4-3.

The summary one of my colleagues came up with is that for NFHS code, if any of the following 10 things happen during a play - the so-called "major clock stoppers" - the clock will start on the snap or when a free kick is legally touched:

a - the ball goes out of bounds
b - B or R is awarded a new series
c - either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick
d - the ball becomes dead behind either goal line
e - a legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete
f - a request for a charged, or radio/TV, timeout is granted
g - a period ends
h - a team attempts to consume time illegally
i - the penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted
j - a fair catch is made

In the casebook play noted, NONE of these items occurred during the down, so the clock will start on the ready for play. Compare that to 3.4.3 - in situation (a), the down ended because of a fair catch, so the clock next starts on the snap. Likewise, in situation (b), if R chooses the awarded fair catch, the clock would next start on the snap.

One small change I would like to see in this rule is for C to read, "R is awarded a new series following a legal kick."
None of these fans paid to see us

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 10:42:32 AM »
One small change I would like to see in this rule is for C to read, "R is awarded a new series following a legal kick."
Why?  K punts, R muffs the kick, K recovers.  K will be awarded a new series following a legal kick.  Clock should start on the snap.

Think of it this way for rationale: whichever team winds up with the ball, you are going to have to get the special teams off the field and the offense and defense back on.  That's why it's on the snap.

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 3423
  • FAN REACTION: +259/-498
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 10:44:28 AM »
Am I missing something or isn't R awarded a NEW series following a LEGAL KICK, which would start the clock on the snap?

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1232
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-44
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 11:49:38 AM »
Am I missing something or isn't R awarded a NEW series following a LEGAL KICK, which would start the clock on the snap?

In the OP (as Bossman's post reprised), R accepts K's penalty resulting in previous spot enforcement = no new series = clock on RFP (since the play ended in bounds).

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 1268
  • FAN REACTION: +64/-22
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2016, 06:11:07 PM »
Am I missing something or isn't R awarded a NEW series following a LEGAL KICK, which would start the clock on the snap?

This is where people get confused on the rule

b - B or R is awarded a new series
c - either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick

The misconception is that since R ended up with the ball at the end of the down, absent the foul, they were awarded a new series.  This is why I proposed an editorial change to clear up any confusion (although it didn't make it past my state office).

b - B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball
c - either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick and will next snap the ball

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2660
  • FAN REACTION: +325/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: 2015 Casebook Question.
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 09:28:57 AM »
Some rules of :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :
 (1) Wait until the smoke clears - all penalties enforced - if it's still 4th down and play ended inbounds, RFP.

 (2) This rule was designed to allow teams to change units - A to B, K to B, R to A, etc - with a dead clock until snap.

 (3) Exception : fair catch -a left over from the free kick after one - no longer needed.