Author Topic: When does clock stop?  (Read 2776 times)

Offline bbeagle

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When does clock stop?
« on: August 22, 2016, 09:31:48 AM »
Team A losing 12-10. 4th Quarter 0:08 left - 3rd and 5 on 25.  Team A trying to get a little closer for a field goal attempt.

QB takes hike from shotgun. QB Throws fast, quick pass to 18 to A11. Broken up by defender at 0:03, ball flies high in the air out-of-bounds, with no possibility of returning inbounds.

Do we blow the whistle for an incomplete pass when the ball is clearly 10 yards out of bounds in the air at 0:02? Or do we wait until the ball actually hits something out of bounds (the stands) at 0:00?

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 09:42:24 AM »
The rule doesn't say it's dead when it's obviously going to be incomplete, it's dead when it hits the ground or something OOB.  It's a chance you take when you put the ball in the air with so little time left.  The defense did it's job, don't bail out the offense for their own "error".

Offline zoom

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 11:56:48 AM »
Coach is exactly right.  The pass is not incomplete until it hits the ground or touches something out of bounds.  The rule says that the clock stops for an incomplete pass, but until the incomplete pass actually occurs, the play is still live and the clock should still be running.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 01:17:34 PM »
Coach is exactly right.  The pass is not incomplete until it hits the ground or touches something out of bounds.  The rule says that the clock stops for an incomplete pass, but until the incomplete pass actually occurs, the play is still live and the clock should still be running.

So, if a ball takes 5 seconds to eventually hit the ground out-of-bounds, as a referee I should just stand there for 5 seconds watching the ball's trajectory out-of-bounds, THEN signal incomplete pass and blow my whistle?

I understand what the book technically says, but I don't think anyone does that on a clearly errant ball. You'd never catch a late hit you're watching an errant ball 30 yards away.

As soon as the ball is definitely out-of-bounds (not like 2 yards out-of-bounds, but 10 yards out and traveling out at a high rate of speed), I think we all signal incomplete right then and watch the receiver and defender - not the ball in the middle of nowhere.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 02:34:31 PM »
As soon as the ball is definitely out-of-bounds (not like 2 yards out-of-bounds, but 10 yards out and traveling out at a high rate of speed), I think we all signal incomplete right then and watch the receiver and defender - not the ball in the middle of nowhere.
If there is 10 minutes left in the 2nd quarter, then you are probably right, because it doesn't matter.  Same with calling for a measurement.  If you are in the middle of the 2nd quarter at midfield after a first down play, and it's close to another first down, make a call and move on.  But if it's 4th down play late in the 4th quarter, you probably need a measurement.

Same thing here.  Yes, in the middle of the second quarter, no one is going to care if you blow the whistle a few seconds early than is technically correct on this play.  But if it makes the difference between the offense getting another play or not at the end of the game, you had better be by the book correct.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 04:05:25 PM »
As soon as the ball is definitely out-of-bounds (not like 2 yards out-of-bounds, but 10 yards out and traveling out at a high rate of speed), I think we all signal incomplete right then and watch the receiver and defender - not the ball in the middle of nowhere.

If you are playing with a field clock, the clock operator is likely watching the ball and will not stop the clock until the ball touches something OOB.

Offline Matt

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2016, 04:36:59 PM »
As a clock operator (and I am) why would I be watching the ball going out of bounds. I'm stopping the clock as soon as the officials signal to stop the clock.

Offline sir55

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 06:09:42 PM »
Don't stop the clock, it may take the receiver that extra 2 or 3 seconds to get to the training table, jump up (so he is not really OOB), and bat the ball back to his team mate for the score.

Offline Jackhammer

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2016, 06:12:21 PM »
So, if a ball takes 5 seconds to eventually hit the ground out-of-bounds, as a referee I should just stand there for 5 seconds watching the ball's trajectory out-of-bounds, THEN signal incomplete pass and blow my whistle?

I understand what the book technically says, but I don't think anyone does that on a clearly errant ball. You'd never catch a late hit you're watching an errant ball 30 yards away.

As soon as the ball is definitely out-of-bounds (not like 2 yards out-of-bounds, but 10 yards out and traveling out at a high rate of speed), I think we all signal incomplete right then and watch the receiver and defender - not the ball in the middle of nowhere.

Nope beagle, as a R you should not be watching the ball or blowing the whistle on this play

 ;D ;D just joshing with you, I know the point you're trying to make
"The only whistle that kills a play is an inadvertent one"

"The only thing black and white in officiating is the uniform"

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2016, 07:59:36 PM »
So, if a ball takes 5 seconds to eventually hit the ground out-of-bounds, as a referee I should just stand there for 5 seconds watching the ball's trajectory out-of-bounds, THEN signal incomplete pass and blow my whistle?

I understand what the book technically says, but I don't think anyone does that on a clearly errant ball. You'd never catch a late hit you're watching an errant ball 30 yards away.

As soon as the ball is definitely out-of-bounds (not like 2 yards out-of-bounds, but 10 yards out and traveling out at a high rate of speed), I think we all signal incomplete right then and watch the receiver and defender - not the ball in the middle of nowhere.

If you are a referee watching an errant ball 30 yds away you have bigger problems than clock issues.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 08:01:45 AM »
A "blackfly in the ointment" play :sTiR: :sTiR:....

     (1) LOS B-30, Lefty, the QB, throws a screen pass toward Scooter who's at B-32;

     (2) Scooter's attention is drawn to the prom queen, who's standing 5 yards OOB @ B-28;

     (3) pass sails over Scooter's head and knocks prom queen's pompoms out of her hands;

     (4) Bubba, Porkchop, and Tank (O-linemen) were all beyond LOS.....

Where the pass first hit beyond the LOS, ibid OOB, do we have a IR flag :o ^flag ???....


   YOU MAKE THE CALL....

Offline zoom

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When does clock stop?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 09:12:41 AM »
No flag.  The covering official should judge that the ball did not cross the neutral zone prior to going out of bounds.  The spot the ball crosses the plane of the sideline is cited as a location for forward progress elsewhere in the rule book, but not when the clock stops. 

That being said, on a high punt well out of bounds, I am killing the clock before it touches the ground.  I think forward passes are a bit different.  I generally don't give an incomplete signal as quickly as I kill the clock when a punt is out of bounds.  Maybe I am wrong to make this distinction....

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 09:36:08 AM »
on a high punt well out of bounds, I am killing the clock before it touches the ground. 
Why?  There is a MUCH greater chance of a punt drifting back inbounds than there is of a pass coming back (wind, ball spin, etc), even from well past the sideline.

I don't see a difference between a punt and a pass that would create different enforcement philosophies.

Offline zoom

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 09:41:57 AM »
Why?  There is a MUCH greater chance of a punt drifting back inbounds than there is of a pass coming back (wind, ball spin, etc), even from well past the sideline.

I don't see a difference between a punt and a pass that would create different enforcement philosophies.
This thread is making me more mindful about why.  It was just what I have been doing (based on film) without really thinking too deeply about it.  The reasons for stopping the clock all carry equal weight,  so there should be no difference.  Now that I am in the referee position, rather than on the wing or back judge, I don't blow these plays dead anymore, but I will discuss it with my crew this season.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 09:44:27 AM by zoom »

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: When does clock stop?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 10:16:02 AM »
This thread is making me more mindful about why.  It was just what I have been doing (based on film) without really thinking too deeply about it. 
And 99% of the time, it's a non-issue, and no one would care when you blow an OOB punt dead.  If there is 8:00 left in the 2Q, who really cares?  It would only matter at the end of the game or half, in a time critical situation.

Quote
The reasons for stopping the clock all carry equal weight,  so there should be no difference.
Agreed!