Author Topic: Feet Entanglement  (Read 1343 times)

Offline BG5

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Feet Entanglement
« on: October 28, 2016, 09:29:58 AM »
Gents,

I have found this board to be extremely helpful so thanks in advance for all the help you have given me and the crew that I work on.

Feet entanglement is something I would like to discuss.

1.  Is it always a no-call if a pass is thrown and the DB is clearly beat but is looking back playing the ball and his feet entangle with the WR? 

2.  Does time/score have anything to do if you would call DPI?

I would love to get your opinion on this.  I have a clip that I would love to share but it says the file is to large :(

Offline bawags06

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Re: Feet Entanglement
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 09:51:58 AM »
Gents,

I have found this board to be extremely helpful so thanks in advance for all the help you have given me and the crew that I work on.

Feet entanglement is something I would like to discuss.

1.  Is it always a no-call if a pass is thrown and the DB is clearly beat but is looking back playing the ball and his feet entangle with the WR? 

2.  Does time/score have anything to do if you would call DPI?

I would love to get your opinion on this.  I have a clip that I would love to share but it says the file is to large :(

1. I'm not sure how a DB can be clearly beat but still be close enough for his feet to get tangled with receiver while playing the ball. That said, 7-5-11 says that unavoidable contact between two or more eligibles making bona fide attempt on the ball. I would say that applies to feet entanglement if the DB is oriented toward the ball and playing it. He could be beat but still have the ability to bat down the pass, and he's entitled to the effort to get there too.

2. Nope. I don't see it as DPI, so I'm not throwing it in any situation.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Feet Entanglement
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 10:01:51 AM »
Gents,
Feet entanglement is something I would like to discuss.

1.  Is it always a no-call if a pass is thrown and the DB is clearly beat but is looking back playing the ball and his feet entangle with the WR? 

2.  Does time/score have anything to do if you would call DPI?

Never say "never", or "always", but I would suggest the key to your questions lies in the words chosen for NFHS 7-5-11-a; "Unavoidable", "simultaneous", "bona fide attempt", " to move toward, catch or bat the pass".

7-5-10-a & b advises it is interference, "when a player....interferes with an eligible opponents "opportunity" to move toward, catch or bat the pass".  The language chosen for both rules point directly to intentional behavior specifically intended to prevent an opponent from doing something they are ENTITLED to do. 

Aside from one player deliberately tripping an opponent, or in some way consciously and intentionally entangling an opponents feet, problematic contact with players feet is usually considered "incidental".  As ALWAYS the deciding factor, between illegal and incidental, rests with the covering official, which only highlights the necessity of both positioning, focus and observation of the ENTIRE action.

As for allowing time remaining, or score, to affect your judgment.  That's a REALLY dangerous road to start down, that is full of deep potholes.   

Offline BG5

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Re: Feet Entanglement
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 10:26:26 AM »
Never say "never", or "always", but I would suggest the key to your questions lies in the words chosen for NFHS 7-5-11-a; "Unavoidable", "simultaneous", "bona fide attempt", " to move toward, catch or bat the pass".

7-5-10-a & b advises it is interference, "when a player....interferes with an eligible opponents "opportunity" to move toward, catch or bat the pass".  The language chosen for both rules point directly to intentional behavior specifically intended to prevent an opponent from doing something they are ENTITLED to do. 

Aside from one player deliberately tripping an opponent, or in some way consciously and intentionally entangling an opponents feet, problematic contact with players feet is usually considered "incidental".  As ALWAYS the deciding factor, between illegal and incidental, rests with the covering official, which only highlights the necessity of both positioning, focus and observation of the ENTIRE action.

As for allowing time remaining, or score, to affect your judgment.  That's a REALLY dangerous road to start down, that is full of deep potholes.

AlUpstateNY,

Your last point you made about score etc is well taken.  Thanks so much for making this point and this is one reason why I love this forum.  You can always learn so much from other officials.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Feet Entanglement
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 03:12:35 PM »
As for allowing time remaining, or score, to affect your judgment.  That's a REALLY dangerous road to start down, that is full of deep potholes.

It's also a REALLY dangerous road if you DON'T allow those into consideration.

Example: Team A trailing 56-0. Ball on the 50. :02 left in the 4th quarter. A1 takes the snap, scrambles around looking to throw a hail mary, clock is at :00, is pursued by B1 and B2 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. A1 spikes the ball at B1's feet.

Why throw a flag at this point? ONLY BAD THINGS can come from this. Just end the game and walk off the field. Use common sense.

Example in a real game of mine: 4th quarter, team A winning by 20 points, very heated rivalry game, hot tempered players, clock running at :30, players unpiling from previous play, player is found to be injured. Clock stopped at :26. After player is attended to and walked off the field, referee blows in the next play and winds the clock. Team A is busy celebrating that they won, and doesn't try to huddle or take position on the field. Referee stops the clock at :01, delay of game. Tells Team A they MUST hike the ball. Team A reluctantly puts 11 men in and ready to hike the ball to sit on the ball, when two team B players jump across the line before the snap and hit the QB. Flags everywhere. Scuffles. Break up players... administer penalties... 10 minutes of elapsed time for this :01..... next play they finally sit on the ball, game over....

Whole thing could have been avoided with COMMON SENSE - no flag at :01, just end the darn game.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 01:50:06 PM by bbeagle »

Online bama_stripes

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Re: Feet Entanglement
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 04:05:51 PM »
Tells Team A they MUST hike the ball.

Haven't heard that term in at least 10 years.   >:D

Your point about common sense officiating is well taken, though.