Author Topic: Back Judge  (Read 1739 times)

Offline Badger1

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Back Judge
« on: October 29, 2016, 09:00:16 PM »
Our crew recently had a playoff game using 5 man crew mechanics.  The ball was spotted at around midfield and the home team ran a sweep play towards the visitors sideline with the runner cutting it up field along the sidelines.  The visiting team coaches claimed there was holding near the end of the offensive line just when the runner cut it up field.  My linesman, umpire nor referee saw any such holding but our back judge said from his position about 25 yards deep he could see the hold but didn't feel comfortable throwing the flag being that far from the play.  I guess my question is how far is too far for the back judge to throw a flag on this?  Obviously you don't want him "fishing in someone else's pond" but if there was a hold, you also want it called if seen.  Opinions please? Thanks.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2016, 09:21:04 PM »
If it's at the point of attack, behind the U but to the middle of the field, I personally have no problem with BJ throwing the flag. As a wing, I'm looking at the first level of blockers mostly -- if the foul is in the second level, I'll take all the help I can get.

That being said, if you're 20+ yards off the play, that looks a little weird when the three officials closer to it don't call the foul.

I do also know several white hats who don't personally appreciate ICBMs thrown from the BJ. If you're concerned about your flag burning up on reentry, I probably wouldn't throw it.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 10:37:20 AM »
Interesting question Badger. I basically agree with "fish in your own pond" but think it's more important to get the call right. If the hold was by a TE or WR who may have been the BJ's key, throw it. If there isn't a receiver occupying the BJ's attention, what else is he going to look for?

One thing I wonder - if the U, R, and wing didn't see it, was it close enough to the point of attack to impact the play?

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 01:25:38 PM »
Question really becomes whose key is it? ???
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline bossman72

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 10:26:25 AM »
Only throw if it's obvious and you're sure it's a foul.  If you fish in someone else's pond, you'd better catch Jaws, not Flounder. With that being said, if you have it, THROW IT!  Could save the crew

Offline SCHSref

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 10:34:32 AM »
Our crew recently had a playoff game using 5 man crew mechanics.  The ball was spotted at around midfield and the home team ran a sweep play towards the visitors sideline with the runner cutting it up field along the sidelines.  The visiting team coaches claimed there was holding near the end of the offensive line just when the runner cut it up field.  My linesman, umpire nor referee saw any such holding but our back judge said from his position about 25 yards deep he could see the hold but didn't feel comfortable throwing the flag being that far from the play.  I guess my question is how far is too far for the back judge to throw a flag on this?  Obviously you don't want him "fishing in someone else's pond" but if there was a hold, you also want it called if seen.  Opinions please? Thanks.

The entire field can be the BJ's area.  I never throw any FS or Encroachment flags, even though I see false starts.  That IS the other 4 guys' area.  However, I can see a facemask from many yards away on a run.  To me, that is a safety issue and I do throw the flag.  I rarely throw one for holding on a running play near the LOS.   I did throw one the other night on a sweep around the right side in the red zone because I had a good look at it.  I've never had a complaint about the "fishing" but I do agree with that statement
If you didn't see it, you can't call it

Offline dawgstripes

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 09:35:14 AM »
As a Back Judge, I've learned that most of the fouls I see are going to be around 20 yards away from you. There are times when a hold is obvious when it is on the end of the line at the point of attack. If your key has released down the field and isn't really threatening anything its ok to shift inside to the tackle or tight end.


Offline Ted T

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Re: Back Judge
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 11:38:06 AM »
While I understand that we don't call anything that we're not sure about, a call from that distance needs to be something really obvious.  As the play was described, the back judge should be looking somewhere off the ball.  Keys, especially in a 5 man crew, evaporate not long after the snap.  I would invite such a call by the back judge on my crew as long as it fits all of the other elements (i.e.- he saw the whole play, the foul was at the point of attack, the runner reached/passed the yard line of the hold, etc.).

Also, keep in mind that no coach would EVER complain about holding unless it was absolutely there.  nAnA