Author Topic: Ball Declared Dead  (Read 680 times)

Offline NCVAReferee

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Ball Declared Dead
« on: July 12, 2017, 05:17:37 AM »
1. In both scenarios below, the ball is laying motionless, no player attempts to secure possession and is declared dead with no player in possession.

A) A 4/10 from A-10.  B41 blocks A8 punt and the ball rebounds into the EZ.  Ball is declared dead.  Result?

B) A 4/10 from A-10.  B42 blocks A8 punt and the ball lies motionless on A-5.  Ball is declared dead.  Result?

2.  Both scenarios above but there is joint possession of the ball rather than no player attempting to secure possession.  Result?

Please also provide rule reference.

Offline Ump33

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Re: Ball Declared Dead
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2017, 06:59:26 AM »
1. In both scenarios below, the ball is laying motionless, no player attempts to secure possession and is declared dead with no player in possession.

A) A 4/10 from A-10.  B41 blocks A8 punt and the ball rebounds into the EZ.  Ball is declared dead.  Result?

B) A 4/10 from A-10.  B42 blocks A8 punt and the ball lies motionless on A-5.  Ball is declared dead.  Result?

2.  Both scenarios above but there is joint possession of the ball rather than no player attempting to secure possession.  Result?

Please also provide rule reference.

1A = Safety; The "force" of the kick put the ball in the EZ and there was no change of possession. (6-3-2, 8-5-2b)
1B = Final result will be 1st & Goal for Team B at the 5 (5-1-3e)

2A = Touchdown for B (5-1-3, Table 6-4)
2B = 1st & Goal for Team B at the 5 (5-1-3)

Offline NCVAReferee

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Re: Ball Declared Dead
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 12:47:39 PM »
Ump - I agree with you on 1A, 1B, and 2B. 

With 2A - 5.1.3 states the rule applies when a scrimmage down ends with the ball in the field of play or out of bounds between the goal lines.  Field of play is defined as the area within the boundary lines and the goal lines at 2.10.2.  Table 6-4 doesn't mention joint possession scenarios.  I'm trying to track down the rule reference that discusses K kicks that force the ball in the EZ and there is joint possession.  It looks like these citations don't address this particular scenario?

Offline js in sc

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Re: Ball Declared Dead
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 01:59:17 PM »
A "kick, jointly recovered by K and R belongs to R". (Table 6-4).  That being the case, the result should be R's ball in K's end zone.  "Possession of a live ball in the opponent's end zone is always a touchdown" (Football fundamentals).

Offline Ump33

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Re: Ball Declared Dead
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 02:25:30 PM »
Ump - I agree with you on 1A, 1B, and 2B. 

With 2A - 5.1.3 states the rule applies when a scrimmage down ends with the ball in the field of play or out of bounds between the goal lines.  Field of play is defined as the area within the boundary lines and the goal lines at 2.10.2.  Table 6-4 doesn't mention joint possession scenarios.  I'm trying to track down the rule reference that discusses K kicks that force the ball in the EZ and there is joint possession.  It looks like these citations don't address this particular scenario?
I struggled with 2A for the same reasons you mentioned. I finally settled on the following:
1-2-1 . . . There shall be two endlines, running parallel to each other, parallel to the goal lines that serve as a boundary line for play. - I take this to mean that the end zone is inbounds
2-10-1 ... The field is the area within the boundary lines and the endlines. - Again, the EZ is inbounds
6-2-7 ... When any scrimmage kick is ... inbounds anywhere while opponents are in joint possession, the ball is awarded to R. - Since 1-2-1 & 2-10-1 suggest the EZ is inbounds, joint possession belongs to R/B
Table 6-4 Item 4. Kick jointly recovered by R and K belongs to R. 
8-2-1 . . . Possession of a live ball in the opponent’s end zone is always a touchdown

As I said, I could not locate a specific rule that address "2A" and look forward to discussion.


js in sc ... not walking on your post, I am just a slow search and peck typist

Offline Bullycon

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Re: Ball Declared Dead
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 08:59:43 AM »
Ump, I think you found the specific rule with 6-2-7. The ball is inbounds and jointly recovered, so it is awarded to R. Ball is in the end zone. Touchdown.

I think 2-29-1 conclusively puts the end zones inbounds. It defines out of bounds as the sidelines and end lines.