Author Topic: Clarification on Punts  (Read 1495 times)

Offline UTchad

  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Clarification on Punts
« on: August 28, 2017, 12:11:12 PM »
So i'm a second year official i'm HL we have a punt happening on A30 during a JV game.

B muffs punt A picks up and advances ball. LJ let it go. Shouldn't he have called it dead once A gained possession of the ball and not allowed player to advance?

I ran in and asked my White Hat he said LJ should have called it dead but decided to just let it go. Thankfully only advanced about 10 yards and no grumbling from the sideline.

Could this have been corrected?

Offline VA Official

  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-5
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 12:15:14 PM »
So i'm a second year official i'm HL we have a punt happening on A30 during a JV game.

B muffs punt A picks up and advances ball. LJ let it go. Shouldn't he have called it dead once A gained possession of the ball and not allowed player to advance?

I ran in and asked my White Hat he said LJ should have called it dead but decided to just let it go. Thankfully only advanced about 10 yards and no grumbling from the sideline.

Could this have been corrected?

Yes it could've and should've. By rule, the down ended once K gained possession. K should not have been allowed to keep the yards that they "gained" after the ball was already dead by rule. Just because there was no whistle doesn't mean the play wasn't dead.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 12:17:53 PM by VA Official »

Offline UTchad

  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 12:26:01 PM »
Yes it could've and should've. By rule, the down ended once K gained possession. K should not have been allowed to keep the yards that they "gained" after the ball was already dead by rule. Just because there was no whistle doesn't mean the play wasn't dead.

Thanks for the clarification that is what I thought. I guess I should have pressed the issue when  ^talk

Offline Stinterp

  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • FAN REACTION: +3/-5
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 12:32:35 PM »
As long as the receiver "muffed" the ball (never possessed it), K cannot advance it.  If the receiver "fumbled" the ball  (possessed it, then lost it) then K could advance.

Offline UTchad

  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 12:39:00 PM »
As long as the receiver "muffed" the ball (never possessed it), K cannot advance it.  If the receiver "fumbled" the ball  (possessed it, then lost it) then K could advance.

Definitely not a fumble. I asked the LJ at the next timeout. He said it was muffed.

Offline Rulesman

  • The Keeper of the Keys
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +324/-243
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 02:16:29 PM »
Thanks for the clarification that is what I thought. I guess I should have pressed the issue when  ^talk
Always go with your gut feeling. You will rarely be wrong.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2574
  • FAN REACTION: +317/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 09:52:34 AM »
When deciding between fumble & muff, I've found the following guidelines useful :

If it was a pass, would you have ruled it complete or incomplete ????

If complete, you have a fumble.

If incomplete, you have a muff.

Offline VALJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2193
  • FAN REACTION: +79/-12
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 01:56:16 PM »
Thanks for the clarification that is what I thought. I guess I should have pressed the issue when  ^talk

While it doesn't hurt to press your case, there are going to be times where you're sure you're right, but the R decides to do something else anyway.  It's unfortunate that when I came in 15 years ago there were some white hats who'd look at me like I couldn't possibly be right - I was only in my second year, while he had 15, or 20, or more.  That's when I learned the difference between an official who has 20 years of experience and an official that has 1 year of experience 20 times.  :)

Be assertive, but graceful.  While the whole crew is responsible for correct enforcements and such, there comes a point where the R is going to do something that's not correct anyway.  A place like here is a great place to get feedback like this.

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1219
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-44
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 03:20:52 PM »
Where R muffed the punt is important...if it was behind the neutral zone, K could advance the ball

Offline NCVAReferee

  • *
  • Posts: 121
  • FAN REACTION: +3/-1
Re: Clarification on Punts
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2017, 03:35:33 PM »
Where R muffs the punt is important for determining whether the continuity of downs has been broken.  If R muffs beyond the NZ then the team in possession at the end of the down is awarded a new series.  K can advance the ball whether or not R muffs the punt beyond the NZ, as long as K's recover is in or behind the NZ.