Author Topic: After a timeout-  (Read 1912 times)

Offline CalhounLJ

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After a timeout-
« on: August 31, 2017, 05:28:08 PM »
Had a coach ask this in pregame last week. During a timeout, all 11 players go to the sideline to confer with the coach. When the :45 second warning is given, QB And snapper come back to ball. When the 1:00 is up, ref blows RFP. the other players run just inside the numbers set quickly into a legal formation. They snap the ball, throw. Quick pass out there and score easily. Legal?


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Offline Rulesman

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 05:46:17 PM »
Legal formation? - check
All 11 inside the numbers? - check
All set for 1 second prior to the snap? - You don't say, buts let's assume so

I've got nothing except a legal play.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 06:55:29 PM »
No different than the swinging gate on an XP.  Legal.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2017, 07:34:12 AM »
It sounds perfectly legal, but as the Colts found out a few years ago, it might be ill advised from a strategy standpoint

Offline FLAHL

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 09:07:25 AM »
Devil's advocate question:  If B is slow to get into position (or still on their sideline) at the 1:00 mark after a time out, would you blow the RFP?

I wouldn't do that.  Our wing and BJ would be hurrying them along, and I'd throw a delay of game flag before I let A snap the ball with B standing on the sideline.  I know that's not the letter of the rule book, but that's what I've been taught, and I agree with that philosophy.  Following the same philosophy, I'm not blowing the RFP if 9 members of A don't appear to be ready.

My rationale is Case 9.10.1.  "Actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."  If the coach tells me about this play in the pregame, and I blow the RFP, I'm complicit in confusing the defense. 

Offline Curious

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 11:57:04 AM »
Totally agree with FLAHL!  I would add that we would also never allow a kick-off to be made with less than 11 players on the field for either team.  Let's play football...not "hide and seek"... :sTiR:

Offline CalhounLJ

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After a timeout-
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 01:03:59 PM »
Legal formation? - check
All 11 inside the numbers? - check
All set for 1 second prior to the snap? - You don't say, buts let's assume so

I've got nothing except a legal play.
Sorry, I meant to imply that when I said "legal" formation.  I told him it sounded legal, but IMO was unethical, because the defense could be easily deceived into thinking A was coming out in a more conventional formation.  Anyway it got me thinking.  I routinely blow the RFP with A still huddled at the sideline.  Some teams prefer it that way. Should I change and get my side guys to make them break out ? Also, I never blow the ready with the defense not on the field in a formation. 


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Offline Curious

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 01:36:53 PM »
Sorry, I meant to imply that when I said "legal" formation.  I told him it sounded legal, but IMO was unethical, because the defense could be easily deceived into thinking A was coming out in a more conventional formation.  Anyway it got me thinking.  I routinely blow the RFP with A still huddled at the sideline.  Some teams prefer it that way. Should I change and get my side guys to make them break out ? Also, I never blow the ready with the defense not on the field in a formation. 


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I wouldn't change/delay your RFP procedure; but if you recognize deception like in the OP, nail them!  I would hope that during your pre-game, when the play is proposed, you let him know it would be wise not to run it....

Offline the clown

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 01:47:31 PM »
I agree with not blowing the ready until everyone is in position.  You know who will get blamed if a quick score is given up... The Officials, not the coach that should have his team on the field.  I do have to admit that in Basketball, I love putting the ball on the floor and starting to count after the second horn is blown following a time out.  That's what we need in football, more horns and less whistles.  Stick it on the timer instead of the BJ.

Offline BIG UMP

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 11:36:01 AM »
In the past I've always sided with not blowing the RFP until both teams are at least around the ball but lately as coaches have pushed the envelope I've moved to the group of RFP at 1:00 and if A doesn't get into position and snap timely, DOG.  If the snap is imminent and B has not gotten into position I have called a DOG on B, only in middle school so far, so an unethical TD is not scored.  Interpreting the rule "my" way 3-6-2 gives you some support.
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 01:11:58 PM »
NFHS 2-35 suggests, " RFP signifies the referee (not anyone else) has  (concluded) signaled the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick and the 25 second clock is to begin." It implies that BOTH teams are, in fact, ready to play, and that neither team is authorized to either unnecessarily delay staring play, or demand gaining an unearned, inappropriate advantage by starting play before the opponent has had reasonable opportunity, to be ready.  (Reasonable opportunity to be ready to play, as determined EXCLUSIVELY by the referee)

Offline Rulesman

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Re: After a timeout-
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 04:36:29 PM »
In the past I've always sided with not blowing the RFP until both teams are at least around the ball but lately as coaches have pushed the envelope I've moved to the group of RFP at 1:00 and if A doesn't get into position and snap timely, DOG.  If the snap is imminent and B has not gotten into position I have called a DOG on B, only in middle school so far, so an unethical TD is not scored.  Interpreting the rule "my" way 3-6-2 gives you some support.
Not blowing the RFP is allowing one or both teams to dictate the pace of play and potentially gain an unfair advantage. That is your job, not theirs. Try "Coach, I'm blowing the ready in 10 seconds. Get your team out here." They will get the message. Quickly. Even at the middle school level.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi