Author Topic: Penalty accepted, yardage declined  (Read 1579 times)

Offline bbeagle

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Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« on: September 11, 2017, 01:18:13 PM »
Team A 1st and 10 at the B20.

A2 runs the ball into the end zone. During the run, A5 holds B5 in the end zone.

Team B decides to accept the penalty, which is enforced from the goal line (10-4-7), and nullifies the score (10-5-3).

However, if Team B decides to NOT accept the penalty yardage (10-1-1), where is the ball placed?

Part 2:

QB A1 is pulled down by his facemask by B2 in the endzone. Team A accepts the facemask penalty, but declines the yardage. Where is the ball placed?

« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 01:30:57 PM by bbeagle »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 01:32:12 PM »
Team A 1st and 10 at the B20.

A2 runs the ball into the end zone. During the run, A5 holds B5 in the end zone.

Team B decides to accept the penalty, which is enforced from the goal line (10-4-7), and nullifies the score (10-5-3).

However, if Team B decides to NOT accept the penalty yardage (10-1-1), where is the ball placed?

Since the end of the run is in A's EZ, and the foul was committed in A's EZ I'm guessing accepting the penalty results in a safety,  A will FK from their 20 yl

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 01:51:12 PM »
OOPs, didn't see question 2

Cannot imagine why A would EVER consider rejecting the penalty yardage, but "Hey, you never know".  The enforcement spot for B's foul would be the goal line.

Offline VA Official

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 02:02:07 PM »
Since the end of the run is in A's EZ, and the foul was committed in A's EZ I'm guessing accepting the penalty results in a safety,  A will FK from their 20 yl

This is a foul by A in B's EZ where the run ends in B's EZ as well.

10-5-3 says the score is nullified so I guess I would have the ball placed at 1". This would never happen though because B would never decline this yardage.

For Part 2, since the result of the play is a TD, the ball is placed as it normally is at the 3 for the XP and at the 40 for the KO. As Al said, there's no circumstance a logical team A would decline this yardage either.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 02:24:26 PM by VA Official »

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 09:14:59 AM »
For Part 2, since the result of the play is a TD, the ball is placed as it normally is at the 3 for the XP and at the 40 for the KO. As Al said, there's no circumstance a logical team A would decline this yardage either.

I meant that the QB was tackled by his facemask by Team B in his OWN end zone.

The result of the play is a safety. Accepting the penalty with yardage gives A the ball on their own 15.

But, accepting the penalty without the yardage would spot the ball at the goal line, inside the goal line. Would that result in a safety as well?

« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:27:46 AM by bbeagle »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 09:59:03 AM »
IMHO, I don't want to hear a kid make a bad decision.
IMHO, offering a kid a bad decision to make is a bad decision.
IMHO, declining the yardage portion of most penalties would be a bad decision.

That being said, there is a case that deals with A running the ball just out of their own end zone with the long axis of the ball being parallel to the goal line.

Problem : When ball rotated diagonally to goal line, it touches :o :o :o :o :o (5 man crew).

Solution : "Cheat" the ball ahead a bit so that it doesn't 8] 8] 8] 8] 8].

The same application could be used in this topic.

.......time for some lobster chowder  eAt&

Offline VA Official

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 10:26:47 AM »
IMHO, I don't want to hear a kid make a bad decision.
IMHO, offering a kid a bad decision to make is a bad decision.
IMHO, declining the yardage portion of most penalties would be a bad decision.

That being said, there is a case that deals with A running the ball just out of their own end zone with the long axis of the ball being parallel to the goal line.

Problem : When ball rotated diagonally to goal line, it touches :o :o :o :o :o (5 man crew).

Solution : "Cheat" the ball ahead a bit so that it doesn't 8] 8] 8] 8] 8].

The same application could be used in this topic.

.......time for some lobster chowder  eAt&

Also the same principle after a 4th down incomplete pass with the ball an inch (or a few) from the goal line. When you rotate the ball so the rear point becomes the foremost point, the ball is over the goal line. Just  yEs: it up a few.

Agree here with Ralph!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 12:22:35 PM by VA Official »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 11:59:52 AM »
Also the same principle after a 4th down incomplete pass with the ball an inch (or a few) from the goal line. When you rotate the ball so the rear point becomes the foremost point, the ball is over the goal line. Just  yEs: it up a few.
In that situation the ball would stay put. The downs marker would move by the length of the football as what was the foremost point of the ball is now its tail.

Offline VA Official

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 12:14:39 PM »
In that situation the ball would stay put. The downs marker would move by the length of the football as what was the foremost point of the ball is now its tail.

Ah, mea culpa. No idea what I was trying to say. You're right, the chains move the length of the ball.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 02:33:34 PM »
Here's a situation where Team A may choose to decline the yardage penalty.

:15 left in game Team A leading 13-10. 4th and 10 from their own 10.

Team A is trying to take an intentional safety on the play, and then kickoff leading 13-12....

Team A snaps the ball with :15 left, the QB backs into the end zone and runs around a bit, then is hauled down with a facemask by B in the endzone. The QB is tackled with :06 left on the clock.

Team A would like another play, 4th and 20 from the own 0, instead of 4th and 5 from their 15. (Harder to get back to the end zone, don't want to be tackled and give B the ball inside the 15).

In this play with :06 left, they could run around again, get a safety with :00, and clinch the victory, instead of having to kick off with :06 left.

 aWaRd
Found a reason for Team A to decline the yardage, but still take the penalty. Go me!  pHiNzuP

(Or does declining the distance penalty make it a safety????)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 02:37:23 PM by bbeagle »

Offline CalhounLJ

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Penalty accepted, yardage declined
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 03:35:40 PM »
I think so. The question I need answered is succeeding spot when penalty is accepted and distance is declined.


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