Author Topic: Can you "juggle" halftime ????  (Read 2463 times)

Online Ralph Damren

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Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« on: September 13, 2017, 09:46:47 AM »
Had an unusual request this weekend. How would you have responded??

(1) Tie game, 1:39 remaining in half, A on B's 6 with 1st & goal;
(2) lightning is seen by all;
(3) all go and hide for 30 minutes;
(4) while hiding, the athletic director arrives;
(5) he informs us that the coaches have agreed to call this delay "halftime" and when we resume play, we'll finish the 2nd period and go directly to the 3rd.
(6) What would you inform the athletic director ???

Offline SouthGARef

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 10:06:19 AM »
Had something similar a few years ago. I believe our 90 minute lightning delay came with about four minutes left in the 2nd quarter. Both coaches and I agreed it didn't make sense to have the kids sit for 90 minutes, then play for four, then sit for 20, and then play some more. Especially since it was a school night.

The one thing I was adamant about is that we would have the three minute halftime warm-up period. It's required by rule and I wasn't going to do away with that. I believe we had a two minute halftime period and then the three minute warm up.

I never heard anything from anyone about it. Felt like it was common sense.


Offline Ump33

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 10:49:39 AM »
Had something similar a few years ago. I believe our 90 minute lightning delay came with about four minutes left in the 2nd quarter. Both coaches and I agreed it didn't make sense to have the kids sit for 90 minutes, then play for four, then sit for 20, and then play some more. Especially since it was a school night.

The one thing I was adamant about is that we would have the three minute halftime warm-up period. It's required by rule and I wasn't going to do away with that. I believe we had a two minute halftime period and then the three minute warm up.

I never heard anything from anyone about it. Felt like it was common sense.
+1 ... Had a similar situation in JV game with about 1:50 in the second qtr, we went into a lightning delay. Cleared the field and during the delay got both coaches to agree to the following:
 - let the delay be our halftime
 - have a three minute warm-up following the delay
 - finish 1:50 in the 2nd qtr
 - Take a 3 minute intermission
 - have the second half KO
Unfortunately there were additional lightning strikes resetting the 30 minutes each time. After 45 minutes and more lightning, the Home Admin called the game due to area radar showing no relief any time soon.
Sometimes we have to let "common sense" govern the situation (or 1-1-6)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:54:44 AM by Ump33 »

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 11:58:58 AM »
 I guess I'm in the minority as I didn't allow it. Where 3-1-3 addresses this, it allows a mutual agreement of the coaches AND the referee to shorten a period or the game, but doesn't allow the delay to become the halftime without agreement to end the 2nd period. I did discuss and received agreement with the coaches to shorten the halftime to 10 minutes + 3 min. warm up. My concern was if Baby Bear got injured after the skipped halftime, would Momma and Poppa Bear want to sue because Baby Bear didn't have his required rest  >:( :( :o ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( >:D P_S z^ P_S .

The 1:39 remaining was filled with time outs, incomplete passes, and two scores. A scored at TD, PAT kicked into the pucker brush, kickoff returned to midfield, opponents marched (along with TOs & incomplete. passes) to score with 0:10 seconds left. The 1:39 turned into aprox 15 minutes and all was happy with halftime finally arriving. At our weekly meeting last night, many felt as you guys do, that I should have agreed.

If we all agreed on everything, our forum would become a "sewing circle" and not the opinion-shared, knowledge gained and enjoyable tool that it is in our beloved game.

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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 12:51:56 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority as I didn't allow it. Where 3-1-3 addresses this, it allows a mutual agreement of the coaches AND the referee to shorten a period or the game, but doesn't allow the delay to become the halftime without agreement to end the 2nd period. I did discuss and received agreement with the coaches to shorten the halftime to 10 minutes + 3 min. warm up. My concern was if Baby Bear got injured after the skipped halftime, would Momma and Poppa Bear want to sue because Baby Bear didn't have his required rest  >:( :( :o ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( >:D P_S z^ P_S .

The 1:39 remaining was filled with time outs, incomplete passes, and two scores. A scored at TD, PAT kicked into the pucker brush, kickoff returned to midfield, opponents marched (along with TOs & incomplete. passes) to score with 0:10 seconds left. The 1:39 turned into aprox 15 minutes and all was happy with halftime finally arriving. At our weekly meeting last night, many felt as you guys do, that I should have agreed.

If we all agreed on everything, our forum would become a "sewing circle" and not the opinion-shared, knowledge gained and enjoyable tool that it is in our beloved game.

 tiphat:
1-1-6, Ralph. 1-1-6. Sometimes a little common sense trumps the rule book.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 01:30:09 PM »
I was thinking as I read the responses that the first thing I would do would be to suggest shortening the 2nd quarter. That seems to be the most practical solution. I would not be opposed to the other options as long as everybody involved were ok.


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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 01:39:21 PM »
I don't know the NFHS rule, but I'm with Ralph on this. In NCAA (and by extension, Texas HS), I don't think we have the power to put "halftime" in the middle of the second quarter. Now, if the coaches say that's what they want, you could use 3-2-1-b (NCAA) to mutually agree to shorten halftime to 1 minute or whatever and effectively accomplish the same goal. And to Calhoun's point, in NCAA at least, once a period has started you can't shorten it. Again, NFHS may be different.

Offline riffraft

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 01:49:23 PM »
Had an unusual request this weekend. How would you have responded??

(1) Tie game, 1:39 remaining in half, A on B's 6 with 1st & goal;
(2) lightning is seen by all;
(3) all go and hide for 30 minutes;
(4) while hiding, the athletic director arrives;
(5) he informs us that the coaches have agreed to call this delay "halftime" and when we resume play, we'll finish the 2nd period and go directly to the 3rd.
(6) What would you inform the athletic director ???

Been There done that, we had about 1:30 left in the second.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 03:08:41 PM »
I don't know the NFHS rule, but I'm with Ralph on this. In NCAA (and by extension, Texas HS), I don't think we have the power to put "halftime" in the middle of the second quarter. Now, if the coaches say that's what they want, you could use 3-2-1-b (NCAA) to mutually agree to shorten halftime to 1 minute or whatever and effectively accomplish the same goal. And to Calhoun's point, in NCAA at least, once a period has started you can't shorten it. Again, NFHS may be different.
Effectively what the OP says is they shortened halftime. Given the circumstances I see nothing wrong with that.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Stinterp

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 03:56:44 PM »
3-1-3

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 05:17:38 PM »
3-1-3, by strict reading, states that (by emergency or mutual agreement) any period can be shortened. The entire 60 minutes of the game was played, but halftime was midway through the second quarter. That is -- again, by strict reading -- not in the purview of 3-1-3. What would have been 100% legal would be to simply cancel the rest of the second quarter and start the 3rd quarter after the weather delay. I don't think you'd get mutual agreement on that, but 3-1-3 would allow it.

That being said, there is no rule that specifically states that the intermission must be at the conclusion of the 2nd period. There is the implication in Table 3.1 (and the obvious, "c'mon man, really...") but I feel that you could 1-1-6 your way out of having half time strictly at half time.

Would it be worthwhile to toss in a few explanatory statements, if you want to allow this? If there is a significant weather (or other) delay within the last 2 minutes (4? 1? Bueller?) of the 2nd quarter, teams may allow for the delay to count as halftime (by mutual agreement, obviously) with the remainder of the period played upon resumption, then a 3 minute break before starting the second half with a kickoff?

Offline Stinterp

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 05:26:29 PM »
NC I agree, I mis-read the OP.  I thought it read they agreed to terminate the 2nd Q, which in that case , as you stated, would fall under 3-1-3

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 07:24:17 AM »
I agree that common sense might say, "Sure, why not?" but there is only rule support for shortening the period not calling the delay halftime and then finishing the period. In today's society, were law suits have became the norm, I fear deviating from the rules and an injury occurring might put us on the hot seat. The NFHS Rule Book used to read :  "The game is administered by officials.......The use of 4 officials is recommended." Then this occurred :
(1) Baby Bear got injured by a cheap shot;
(2) none of the 4 man crew witnessed the foul;
(3) Momma Bear & Poppa Bear, realizing that this might cost Baby Bear a full ride to UCLA and a career with the Chargers, felt someone should pay;
(4) their lawyer decided that if there had been a 5th official, he would have watching the mean boy never would have dared to cheap shot Baby Bear;
(5)then came the "pass the buck"/"hot potato"/"deep pockets".....
 (a) the officiating crew said the assignor only assigned 4;
  (b) the assignor said the school would only pay for 4;
   (c) the school said the state association only recommended 4;
    (d) the state association quoted the NFHS : "The use of 4 are recommended";
     (e) NFHS met the case head-on and won.
The rule (1-1-4 note) now reads : "Each STATE ASSOCIATION may determine the number of game officials to be used."

I didn't want to put myself in a position of liability of allowing it.

IMHO, Rule 1-1-6 is to be used if the situation isn't covered in the rules.
IMHO, I felt it was covered by 3-1-3.
IMHO, my humble opinion isn't always popular.

 :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: tR:oLl    (5 man crew)   

Offline Stinterp

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 08:51:25 AM »
I would not count this delay time as the halftime.  Under rules 3-1-1, 3-1-3, 3-1-4.  I would ask the coaches if they agree to shorten the second period, if yes, then start the 3rd quarter after the delay.  If no, then I would suspend the game from the exact point, then pickup at the time of interruption after the thunder/ lightening has passed after the 30 minute wait.  Then have normal halftime.  What if the delay occurred at 4:00 or 6:00 or 8:00 minutes left in the 2nd Quarter?
What would you do in this case.  I don't think the remaining time should influence the correct procedures.

Offline MClays99

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 09:47:26 AM »
In Ohio we have been informed that if the weather delay comes close to the end of the second quarter that it is acceptable to use the delay as the designated half-time, provided both coaches are in agreement, if not, pick up at point of suspension and continue with regular schedule.
When my crew has been able to utilize this option, after playing the remaining time, we then brought the captain(s) to mid-field for the determination of second half choices and rolled on.

No harm, no foul, no utilization of 1-1-6, just mutual agreement of the coaches.


Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 10:30:48 AM »
Welcome, MClay, to our forum. May you find it both enjoyable and informative. I highly respect Beau Rugg and if it is via 1-7 Table#11 ,in Ohio's Gold Book, then certainly use it. My state doesn't take any directive on this, so I felt only 3-1-3 would apply to my situation. Knowing that certainly the coach of the team with the ball w/1&G @B's 6, would not want to shorten the period, the choice that could be made was to shorten the halftime.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 12:08:12 PM »
It's unfortunate that law suits and liability have to be factored in on our decisions, but in 2017, they do.

"Rule ABC says we should do XYZ, and we did XYZ" is our best defense.
"Rule ABC says we should do XYZ, but I decided to do something else" could end up being very expensive.
"Never argue with stupid people.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 12:45:21 PM »
Thanks for your support on this, FLAHL I don't mean to sound pompous ,but I could vision some judge saying : "Your name's in the rule book, Damren, you should have known better."

 P_S ^flag hEaDbAnG pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn hEaDbAnG P_S

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 01:03:44 PM »
I understand that if somebody wants to say "You didn't follow the rules and my kid got hurt" they're going to sue and you have to spend time and money defending yourself, no matter how ridiculous the claim -- but just to play devil's advocate for a minute, I'm having a very tough time coming up with a scenario where holding the halftime intermission 100 seconds too early on the game clock (and for an extended break as well -- since it would be at least 30 minutes for lightning) -- and the fact that there wasn't an additional break would be the cause of a preventable injury.

Now, if the break is much earlier than that -- mid first quarter, or early second quarter -- and you end up playing almost 3 quarters of the game without an intermission, I could see the concern -- but even then, a half of football is not a standard unit of time. It could take 26 minutes. It could take 90 minutes or more.

No matter what the rules say, you're not going to prevent stupid lawsuits. You might as well allow coaches and officials to agree in unusual circumstances to keep the game moving as much as possible.


Offline MClays99

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 01:28:12 PM »
Thanks Ralph!  I can see where ncwingman & flahl are coming from and they make very valid, solid points.  If the delay was at any other time than the last minute or so, like I offered earlier, pick up at point of suspension then follow the normal sequence.
I asked my cousin years ago, who was an attorney at the time, "Can I sue for that?"  His response was "You can sue for anything, winning is an entirely different question!"  This sounds about what ncwingman was saying!

Wishing everyone dry fields and footballs this weekend!

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2017, 06:21:55 AM »
I'd go with the mutual consent of the two teams (coach and AD - if he's there) to shorten the 2nd period, make the lightning delay halftime then add the time on to the third period.  IMO there's more than adequate rule support for that and if everyone agrees then I'm comfortable with it.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 08:35:06 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2017, 09:09:51 AM »
I'd go with the mutual consent of the two teams (coach and AD - if he's there) to shorten the 2nd period, make the lightning delay halftime then add the time on to the third period.  IMO there's more than adequate rule support for that and if everyone agrees then I'm comfortable with it.
Shortening the 2nd Q and make the lightening delay halftime, yes, but I fail to see where the rules allow the 3rd Q to be longer than 12 minutes. Rule reference?
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Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2017, 11:09:50 AM »
I'd go with the mutual consent of the two teams (coach and AD - if he's there) to shorten the 2nd period, make the lightning delay halftime then add the time on to the third period.  IMO there's more than adequate rule support for that and if everyone agrees then I'm comfortable with it.
If you added the time remaining in the 2nd period to the start of the 3rd period, you would, in my opinion, open up some can of worms.

(1) Having a period longer than 12 minutes not a good idea;
(2) Offensive strategy would be change with no need to hurry up;
(3) New timing rule regarding last 2 min. of a half would have to be waived;
(4) Unused TOs from first half allowed for extra portion;
(5) No kickoff for 2nd half, as it would start with end of first half.

....best keeping that can o'worms unopened and in your tackle box (the fishin' one- not the one where the big boys can get out of and ground the football).

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2017, 11:37:09 AM »
There's no way B's coach is agreeing to shorten the 2nd quarter since he has the ball 1st and goal on A's 6 yard line.  So that option is out. Given what you had to work with Ralph, you made a fair and legal (per the rule book) ruling.

It's great to have these discussions for all of us to learn from.  If this happens to any of us, we'll all benefit from having thought through this scenario.  I had captains refuse to shake hands at the coin toss once, and was prepared to handle that only because of what I'd read in one of these threads.
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Can you "juggle" halftime ????
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2017, 02:17:49 PM »
Although negotiating an agreement acceptable to both teams is ALWAYS the objective to pursue, there may be times where that is, unfortunately, NOT an available possibility. 

In those, hopefully very rare circumstances, 1-1-6 serves to break the "logjam" and the solution, for whatever particular situation is under discussion, rests with the judgment, common sense and "spirit of good sportsmanship", that designates, "the referee's decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game".