Author Topic: Bulletin 2  (Read 2090 times)

Online ElvisLives

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Bulletin 2
« on: October 04, 2017, 07:16:45 PM »
Was going to upload bulletin file, but I canít seem to figure out how to do it on my IPad.  Sorry.[/i]

NCAA Play Situations Bulletin 2
Nothing earthshaking, but some interesting interpretations.  The prohibition against a defensive player more than yard beyond the NZ from running forward and making some action intended to cause a false start is somewhat new, but needed.
The confirmation that yard lines are NOT planes is something we have known (or should have known) forever. But, if any coaches or players read these bulletins, then theyíll know, too.  (The bulletins do go to each member institution, but who knows who actually get them.).  Stretching the ball beyond a yard line doesnít get you anything.
But, I am trying to imagine how a kicker would kick the ball while moving horizontally or back toward his own goal line from beyond his restraining line?  Good interpretation, but Iím having a tough time envisioning the kick action.  Just a personal problem, I guess.

Robert

Offline Kalle

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 01:12:08 AM »

Offline Morningrise

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 08:31:07 AM »
I am trying to imagine how a kicker would kick the ball while moving horizontally or back toward his own goal line from beyond his restraining line?

My feeling is it's talking about when a kicker sets up the ball and then walks downfield several yards for no apparent reason, then comes back behind the ball and kicks normally.

Are kickers doing this?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 10:43:47 AM »
I had this play last year.

Team A free kicker approaches the ball and swings his leg to kick the ball but totally misses and is then completely beyond the restraining line after his whiff.  All team A players have also ran past the restraining line.  The ball is still on the Tee.  We did nothing.  All team A players ran back to try and reset but the play clock expired and they were penalized for a delay of game.

So are we now just going to shut it down if any team A player is beyond the restraining line after the ready for play?  This seems like a stretch since the rule states they can't be beyond the restraining line when the ball is kicked.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 11:21:04 AM »
The bulletin is clear that this is a live-ball foul.  So, no, we wouldn't stop the play and penalize as a dead-ball foul.  Just recognize that the kicker was strolling around beyond his restraining line before the kick, and flag it as a live-ball foul, but let the play continue.
The bigger questions are:

1) What about the other players on his team?  I think this would extend to them as well. 
2) What about Team B players?  Does this prohibition apply to them as well?

Robert

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 12:51:27 PM »
The bulletin is clear that this is a live-ball foul.  So, no, we wouldn't stop the play and penalize as a dead-ball foul.  Just recognize that the kicker was strolling around beyond his restraining line before the kick, and flag it as a live-ball foul, but let the play continue.
The bigger questions are:

1) What about the other players on his team?  I think this would extend to them as well. 
2) What about Team B players?  Does this prohibition apply to them as well?

Robert

So the kicker can't even correct the situation by resetting back on his side of the restraining line?  Since he was at one time beyond the line after the ready for play, even though he is behind the restraining line when the ball is kicked he has already fouled?

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 01:10:20 PM »
My reading of Shaw's interpretation indicates that is the case.  He states that the "...exception does not allow the kicker to be beyond the retraining line after the ready for play signal."  As written, that would be 'period.'  Unless Team A is granted a time out prior, Team A will be flagged at the kick.

A bit muddy, but probably not something that will happen often enough to get in a twist about.  This may stop those few that are doing it, so it doesn't spread.

Robert

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 01:16:46 PM »
That is in direct contradiction to the rule which states that offside is only a penalty when a player is beyond the restraining line at the time the ball is kicked.

IMO - the bulletin is meant to truly describe a situation where the kickers runs at the ball and kicks it from beyond the restraining line. Did this happen recently??

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 01:43:59 PM »
Something is missing here since this just doesn't seem plausible.  What's the rest of the story, and what generated this interpretation?  An "offside" that could have been triggered at 3 or 4 seconds in the play clock, that is then flagged as a "live ball" foul at 24 seconds on the play clock when the ball is actually kicked???

Maybe as ChicagoZebra states the kicker runs up to the ball plants a leg beyond the ball ("offside") then in a separate delayed motion kicks the ball soccer style "onside" with his other foot while standing beyond the ball?  Any other thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 01:59:46 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline nvfoa70

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 02:37:55 PM »
Agree this is a RULE CHANGE.  Twice in recent years, I've encountered the following play:  Team A lines up for an attempted onside kick, with the kicker attempting to "top" the ball to start it slowly rolling forward.  In each case, the kicker "whiffs" on the attempt, with the kicker and several kicking team members going beyond the restraining line.  They regroup (within the 25 second count) and the kick proceeds.  No flags were dropped in either case.

It appears that we would now have flags for a live ball (?!?) foul against Team A???


Offline bossman72

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 11:48:59 AM »
Don't make this harder than it needs to be.  If this exact case play happens, flag it.  Otherwise, officiate as you normally do.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 10:01:39 AM »
So, thinking of this Bulletin that reminds us that a yard line is a line and not a plane, and then watching the 4th quarter of the Cowboy - Packer game, I was thinking that Elliott's "reach with the ball" to get a first down, and then pulling the ball back, should not have been a first down -- but a failure to make the line to gain.

  Thoughts?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 11:47:00 AM »
So, thinking of this Bulletin that reminds us that a yard line is a line and not a plane, and then watching the 4th quarter of the Cowboy - Packer game, I was thinking that Elliott's "reach with the ball" to get a first down, and then pulling the ball back, should not have been a first down -- but a failure to make the line to gain.

  Thoughts?

I don't believe NCAA rules apply on Sundays.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 12:21:06 PM »
 
I don't believe NCAA rules apply on Sundays.
:thumbup
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Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 01:30:24 PM »
I don't believe NCAA rules apply on Sundays.
  That much I know.  I just wanted to get the sense from those who saw the play -- that on Saturday (or Friday night in Texas), that we would not be granting a first down to Team A because he "reached out" with the ball beyond the LTG before pulling it back.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2017, 03:45:50 PM »
Didn't see the play, and don't know anything about NFL rules.  But it sounds like you are describing the exact scenario in the Bulletin, which, in NCAA, would be that progress is given to the point at which the ball becomes dead.  If the ball wasn't dead at the moment he had the ball thrust forward, then that is not his progress, yet.  If he pulls the ball back, then the ball becomes dead, then that is his progress.
Perhaps different in the NFL, but I would hope not.

Robert 

Offline goodgrr

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Re: Bulletin 2
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 08:53:37 AM »
The play comes up in this week's "you make the call", the final replay angle is the key one.

http://operations.nfl.com/the-officials/inside-nfl-gameday-central/you-make-the-call/?w=3219