Author Topic: Enforcement Spot ??  (Read 3442 times)

Offline js in sc

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2017, 12:33:32 PM »
So will someone kindly answer this question so I can figure this out? Thanks.
IMHO, unless the backwards pass is muffed or the runner fumbles, this would be a continuation of the running play beyond the LOS.  I have no rule to back this up, but it is my opinion.  Otherwise, we would have to beanbag every backward, pass which would make the multiple backward passes at the end of a close game a nightmare.  That may be why a backwards pass is a loose ball play behind the LOS, since any fouls would be previous spot except all-but-one.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2017, 12:52:03 PM »
Do we all agree that if the ball is handed to a team mate it does not create a new run segment Ė just continues as one running play?  This is true if the handing is behind or beyond the line of scrimmage.

But, if the ball is pitched (backward pass) to a team mate behind the LOS then it creates a loose ball play for all the action before the backward pass being caught and a running play for the action after the catch.  If the backward pass occurred beyond the LOS then there would not be a loose ball play, instead there would be two running play segments and two separate basic spots for penalty enforcement consideration.

So then, the bolded section of this explanation is wrong?

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2017, 02:24:06 PM »
Quote from: NVFOA_Ump
1st and 10 at the B-45.  Ball carrier A-24 is running beyond the LOS and is "tackled" by the facemask at the B-40.  Before he is down by rule, he legally backward passes the ball to A-26 who is then tackled at the B-30.  We've got a PF facemask flag down at the B-40.  What are the options here?
So will someone kindly answer this question so I can figure this out? Thanks.

The foul occurred during a running play that began with snap and ended when player A26 obtained possession of the backward pass. (His subsequent advance to the B 30-yard-line is a separate running play.) The related run for the foul ended at the B 40-yard-line when the backward pass was thrown; this is the basic spot and the enforcement spot for the foul. 15 yards from there is better than the result of the play, so A will accept the penalty, and we'll end up with A 1/10 at the B 25-yard-line.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
Thanks. So we are supposed to beanbag a backward pass beyond the Los?


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Offline Magician

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2017, 03:24:50 PM »
This may be an oversimplification, but it has served me well. Any time the ball is loose behind the NZ, the related action is a loose ball play. No matter how many times it becomes loose behind the LOS, it's all part of one loose ball play. The loose ball play ends when the ball is possessed or comes dead by rule (i.e. incomplete pass, out of bounds). Anything else is a running play.

There can be multiple running plays during a down, but there can only be one loose ball play and it will ALWAYS start with the snap.

Once you have that figured out you just determine the basic spot, apply all-but-one (consider the exceptions) and penalty enforcement becomes much less complex.

Offline VA Official

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 03:36:26 PM »
So if we accept that the commas in 2-33-1 are misplaced (and I'm not sure that I agree), what is the play when we have a live ball loose from a legal backward pass before it is controlled by the receiving player?  It's still a "run"?  ???

The commas are correct. A legal backward pass behind the LOS is a loose ball play, and a legal backward pass beyond the LOS is a related run play. A backward pass is the same thing as a fumble beyond the LOS. We enforce from the end of the related run, no matter if the player intentionally lost the ball (backward pass) or unintentionally (fumble).

Thanks. So we are supposed to beanbag a backward pass beyond the Los?


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Indeed we are. We donít want to miss a correct enforcement spot.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:43:46 PM by VA Official »

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2017, 06:20:43 AM »
So will someone kindly answer this question so I can figure this out? Thanks.

A can accept a 15-yd penalty from the B-40 or the result of the play.

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: Enforcement Spot ??
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2017, 02:10:27 PM »
Thanks. So we are supposed to beanbag a backward pass beyond the Los?

Yes - that's precisely what the bags are for. (There are, of course, other items too...)

In fact, there's no need to bag a backward pass or fumble *behind* the LOS, as that will never be an enforcement spot. However, many officials are more comfortable bagging all fumbles/backward passes, in part as a definite signal that a pass IS backward.