Author Topic: After further review by the replay official.......  (Read 1360 times)

Offline Ralph Damren

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After further review by the replay official.......
« on: October 16, 2017, 07:54:01 AM »
As a kid, I never questioned how Santa was able to deliver presents on Christmas as we didn't have a fireplace.  :o ;D As a Pats fan, I didn't question the infamous "tuck rule" of yesteryear or the "touchback rule" of yesterday. As an official, I did.

IMHO, I understand that the pylon is OOB in the end zone. I understand that a loose ball touching a player that is OOB is OOB by rule. I understand that a ball in PLAYER POSSESSION is dead and a TD once it breaks the goal line plane. The ball appeared loose prior to that, but appeared to be in contact with the runner. SO.....

 When the player touched the pylon, the ball wasn't in possession of the runner BUT WAS TOUCHING HIM. Wouldn't that make the ball dead at that point and OOB in  THE FIELD OF PLAY a few inches from the goal line. ??? ::) :o ??? ???

I don't claim to be astute on NFL rules, but I think some of you guys are tiphat: .

Early bird quiz (NFHS rules)......

 (1) LOS K's5, Hans punting from his own end zone. Bubba breaks through and blocks Hans's airborne punt it bounces back through and out of A's end zone.
   YOU MAKE THE CALL....

 (2) LOS K's 5, Hans punting from his own end zone. With a big rush on, Hans gets his kick off. It is short and high. Scooter, R's return man, is racing in and signaling for a fair catch at A's 15. The airborne kick sails through Scooter's hands and bounces off his knee before touching the ground. The ball then bounces back thru and out of K's end zone.
    YOU MAKE THE CALL.....

HELPFUL HINT : A loose ball bouncing OOB in either end zone is either a touchback or safety.

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 01:50:58 PM »
As a kid, I never questioned how Santa was able to deliver presents on Christmas as we didn't have a fireplace.  :o ;D As a Pats fan, I didn't question the infamous "tuck rule" of yesteryear or the "touchback rule" of yesterday. As an official, I did.

IMHO, I understand that the pylon is OOB in the end zone. I understand that a loose ball touching a player that is OOB is OOB by rule. I understand that a ball in PLAYER POSSESSION is dead and a TD once it breaks the goal line plane. The ball appeared loose prior to that, but appeared to be in contact with the runner. SO.....

 When the player touched the pylon, the ball wasn't in possession of the runner BUT WAS TOUCHING HIM. Wouldn't that make the ball dead at that point and OOB in  THE FIELD OF PLAY a few inches from the goal line. ??? ::) :o ??? ???

I don't claim to be astute on NFL rules, but I think some of you guys are tiphat: .

Early bird quiz (NFHS rules)......

 (1) LOS K's5, Hans punting from his own end zone. Bubba breaks through and blocks Hans's airborne punt it bounces back through and out of A's end zone.
   YOU MAKE THE CALL....

 (2) LOS K's 5, Hans punting from his own end zone. With a big rush on, Hans gets his kick off. It is short and high. Scooter, R's return man, is racing in and signaling for a fair catch at A's 15. The airborne kick sails through Scooter's hands and bounces off his knee before touching the ground. The ball then bounces back thru and out of K's end zone.
    YOU MAKE THE CALL.....

HELPFUL HINT : A loose ball bouncing OOB in either end zone is either a touchback or safety.

I'll state the obvious.
Both are safeties as both are still kicks when declared dead by going though the kickes's end zone.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 05:50:48 PM by GA Umpire »

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 04:36:56 PM »
Also, there can't be a new force on a loose ball in flight.  Safety in (1) and (2).

Offline LJ Silver

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 05:28:42 PM »
NFL rule regarding the pylon is different than NCAA/NFHS.  Touching the pylon in NFL does not make a player out of bounds. Only a loose ball touching the pylon is out of bounds.

Online Kalle

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 01:43:14 AM »
FWIW, the result of the play in Ralph's quiz is a safety in both cases in NCAA, too. Team A is responsible for the ball being dead behind their own goal line (blocking and muffing do not add new impetus - or force, in NF terms, I guess).

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 10:36:14 AM »
Congrats, guys, no one got fooled aWaRd (GA Umpire by 3+ hours) but ya'all deserve one...

 aWaRd Kalle

  aWaRd LJ

   aWaRd 'Bama

If a kick ain't returned to Planet Earth yet, no new force can be added.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 12:08:09 PM »
I'm still not even sure what exactly happened in the Jets game, rule aside.

A similar play to 2 actually happened in a Southwest Conference game (I believe it involved SMU) years ago. Early '80s probably. On a kickoff, for whatever reason, an line drive kick hit an upback of the receiving team and bounced back toward the kicking team's goal line. There was a mad dash to get to the ball and it kept being pushed back (toward the GL). No foul. It ended up going OOB behind the GL. Result?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 01:19:08 PM »
I'm sure you already know the answer, but let's step through it.

The ball was kicked legally, so it is loose from a free kick.  At this point the impetus is with the kick from Team A.  The ball strikes a receiving team player. That is legal touching, so the covering official should signal to start the game clock.  Also, at this point, both teams are eligible to touch the ball, anywhere on the field and end zones.  The ball is still loose from the free kick, and impetus is still with Team A's kick. 

The loose ball is rolling/bouncing toward Team A's goal line.  As players of both teams attempt to recover the ball, it is muffed by players of both teams as it continues to move toward A's goal line.  No player gains possession of the ball, and no player commits an act (legal or illegal) on the ball that provides new impetus to the ball.  The ball ultimately crosses A's goal line and goes out of bounds.

Impetus was never changed from time it was legally free kicked.  Thus, Team A is responsible for the ball being dead behind their own goal line.  By rule, that is a safety, 2 points for B.  And a free kick for A at the A-20.

Robert

Offline NorCalMike

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Re: After further review by the replay official.......
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 02:53:35 PM »
Ralph,
The Pats won so don't question it.  aWaRd