Author Topic: expanded neutral zone question  (Read 547 times)

Offline BG5

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expanded neutral zone question
« on: November 01, 2017, 08:28:40 AM »
Gents,

I just want to make sure I understand this rule.  Its 4th and 15 from Rs 30 yard line.  K1 is attempting a field goal or punt from the 30 yard line.  In both plays R25 partially blocks the kick/punt causing the ball to cross the expanded neutral zone and landing on team R's 25 yard line.  In both cases R77 muffs the ball on the 25 yard line of R and K picks the ball up at the 25 yard line and runs getting tackled at the 27.

In both of these situations is it true that the play should be blown dead once K picks the ball up as K cannot return a muff?  Additionally K would be allowed to keep the ball and it would be 1st and 10? 


I just want to make sure I understand this.

Offline VA Official

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 08:36:03 AM »
Gents,

I just want to make sure I understand this rule.  Its 4th and 15 from Rs 30 yard line.  K1 is attempting a field goal or punt from the 30 yard line.  In both plays R25 partially blocks the kick/punt causing the ball to cross the expanded neutral zone and landing on team R's 25 yard line.  In both cases R77 muffs the ball on the 25 yard line of R and K picks the ball up at the 25 yard line and runs getting tackled at the 27.

In both of these situations is it true that the play should be blown dead once K picks the ball up as K cannot return a muff?  Additionally K would be allowed to keep the ball and it would be 1st and 10? 


I just want to make sure I understand this.

It doesn't matter whether it's a FG or punt, they are both scrimmage kicks and operate under the same rules. Whenever K possesses a scrimmage kick beyond the NZ, the ball is dead. If R has touched it, it is K's ball 1/10 from that spot. If R has not touched it, it's R's ball 1/10 from that spot. 6-2-4 covers this. In this play, K recovered a muffed (touched) scrimmage kick beyond the NZ, therefore the ball is dead, and a new series is awarded to K from that spot. Regardless of touching by R, if the ball had bounced backward and K had recovered in or behind the NZ, the ball is still live and K may advance.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 08:41:18 AM by VA Official »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 08:41:12 AM »

In both of these situations is it true that the play should be blown dead once K picks the ball up as K cannot return a muff?  Additionally K would be allowed to keep the ball and it would be 1st and 10? 

A field goal attempt is simply a "scrimmage Kick" (which uniquely also score points for K), so it's governed by all the rules associated with scrimmage kicks.  The "touching" (blocking) of the kick in the ENZ is ignored, but once R touches the ball beyond the ENZ, the ball can be legally recovered by either team.  K can ONLY recover the ball and CANNOT advance the muff (R can both recover and advance the ball). 

K's ball 1st and 10 from the 25

Offline BG5

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 08:45:19 AM »
Thank you so much for the help.  I love this website.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 08:50:34 AM »
The ironic situation is when :
 R muffs the kick beyond the expanded neutral zone;
 kick then bounces behind LOS;

 K can recover the muffed kick behind the LOS and advance and also get a new series, as the kick had been touched by R down field.

 Two things to remember :
  (1) the ball doesn't have to be muffed (intent to recover) by R, only touching an unsuspecting R is treated the same.
  (2) new series by K on a scrimmage kick play = clock starts on snap.

Offline Curious

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 01:23:55 PM »
The ironic situation is when :
 R muffs the kick beyond the expanded neutral zone;
 kick then bounces behind LOS;

 K can recover the muffed kick behind the LOS and advance and also get a new series, as the kick had been touched by R down field.

 Two things to remember :
  (1) the ball doesn't have to be muffed (intent to recover) by R, only touching an unsuspecting R is treated the same.
  (2) new series by K on a scrimmage kick play = clock starts on snap.

A LEGAL kick!!! ^talk tiphat:

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 06:55:56 AM »
A LEGAL kick!!! ^talk tiphat:
Good point, Curious, and there has to be a kick. If a team runs a fake kick from scrimmage kick formation and gains a first down clock would start on the ready unless OOB.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2017, 07:19:49 AM »
Good point, Curious, and there has to be a kick. If a team runs a fake kick from scrimmage kick formation and gains a first down clock would start on the ready unless OOB.

Which still doesn't make sense to me.

When the timing rules were changed in the mid-'90s, the rationale for starting on the snap was to give the offense time to change players from receiving ( or punt block) team to regular offense team.  In most cases involving a fake (or a punt attempt gone awry before a kick), this change still has to be made.

Offline CalhounLJ

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expanded neutral zone question
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2017, 07:35:59 AM »
Which still doesn't make sense to me.

When the timing rules were changed in the mid-'90s, the rationale for starting on the snap was to give the offense time to change players from receiving ( or punt block) team to regular offense team.  In most cases involving a fake (or a punt attempt gone awry before a kick), this change still has to be made.
Which, if you think about it, was a flawed rationale to begin with. How does starting on the snap vs the ready give either team more time to exchange players? Adding 5 secs to the play clock, maybe. I say run the game clock as much as possible and hold the ready.


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