Author Topic: Changing Jerseys at Halftime  (Read 3054 times)

Offline sir55

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Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« on: November 09, 2017, 07:36:29 PM »
I was contacted by a HC for a playoff game this Friday. They are the home team. He wanted to know if he could have is team change from their green jerseys at halftime to their red jerseys in the second half. There is no change of player numbers. I do not know of any rule that would prohibit this. Any opinions that this would be illegal? Thanks for your input.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 07:57:09 PM »
NFHS 1-5-b includes the detailed requirements associated with player "Jerseys".  Color requirements are limited to suggesting the visiting team jerseys should be white in (the main color) and that of the host team should be "a dark color that clearly contrasts with white"(for obvious confusion avoiding reasons).

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 08:05:53 PM »
Strictly by Fed rules, I don't see this being illegal since there is no rule against it (but no rule specifically allowing it either). In that same breath, there's no rule that explicitly states that all members of the same team must wear the same jersey (only towels are required to be uniform in color). In theory, the offense of the home team could wear green and the defense could wear red and, as long as the stripes are the correct width and numbers and patches are the correct size, it could all be technically legal.

That being said -- there's probably state association adoptions that have rules about this. I'd check with your state to see what they say.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 08:04:43 AM »
Many "hot weather" states may have teams that change to dryer uniforms at halftime and transferable blood on one's jersey would call for a change. The only issue that I could see is if Sneaky Pete and Big ole' Bubba swapped jerseys with Sneaky Pete, pretending to be Bubba, catching a touchdown pass. IMHO, one could :
 (1) Hit the coach with a USC, apply 9-10-1 and enforce the penalty from previous spot;
 (2) Flag for illegal participation under 9-6-4d;
 (3) Ask the prom queen: "Who just scored the touchdown?"

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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 09:40:40 AM »
Never underestimate the ingenuity, creativeness or inventiveness of the American Soldier, teenager or Football Coach.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 12:35:15 PM »
Many "hot weather" states may have teams that change to dryer uniforms at halftime and transferable blood on one's jersey would call for a change. The only issue that I could see is if Sneaky Pete and Big ole' Bubba swapped jerseys with Sneaky Pete, pretending to be Bubba, catching a touchdown pass. IMHO, one could :
 (1) Hit the coach with a USC, apply 9-10-1 and enforce the penalty from previous spot;
 (2) Flag for illegal participation under 9-6-4d;
 (3) Ask the prom queen: "Who just scored the touchdown?"

WHAT SAY YOU  ^talk ^good ^no  :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR:

Wasn't it not that long ago (for you, at least) that players would wear pinnies to change into an eligible number if they wanted to line up in an eligible position, then take it off so that they could return to an ineligible position?

I mean, if Sneaky Pete was wearing Big Ol' Bubba's #66 and caught a pass, I've got an illegal touching foul.

If Bubba wore #85, we're asking the prom queen if she was paying attention.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 03:19:35 PM »
Question-is it illegal to change numbers?


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 04:02:43 PM »
Question-is it illegal to change numbers?

Seems like it would depend on WHY the numbers were changed.  If a lineman was changed to an eligible receiver, or vice versa, they would need to change numbers to be "legal" in their new positions.  If their jersey was rendered unwearable, a change may be necessary and the new number would have to comply with the position the player hoped to continue in.

If the number was changed to hide something, or for some other purpose to prevent the player from being identifiable, like avoiding a previous USC penalty in that game, or playing in a game he had been disqualified from playing in, it would be subject to consequence.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 07:36:46 AM »
I Remember a discussion years ago on the FED forum addressing number changes, and as I recall, the consensus was that any USC foul was charged to the player, not the number. Which, IMO, is very hard to enforce, unless the player stands out in some physical way (taller, smaller, thinner, plumper, more athletic, etc..)

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 08:54:39 AM »
Wasn't it not that long ago (for you, at least) that players would wear pinnies to change into an eligible number if they wanted to line up in an eligible position, then take it off so that they could return to an ineligible position?

I mean, if Sneaky Pete was wearing Big Ol' Bubba's #66 and caught a pass, I've got an illegal touching foul.

If Bubba wore #85, we're asking the prom queen if she was paying attention.
The "pinnies" were in fashion until 1982 when players with 1-49/80-99 numbers were allowed to be considered linemen, in scrimmage kick formation, IF they reported to the  sNiCkErS umpire  sNiCkErS . That lasted to 1983 when it was decided that the umpire  sNiCkErS couldn't be bothered with such trivial matters :).
In the few times that a player has had to change his jersey ,because of transferable blood or severe tear, the coach or captain has informed me and I've relayed it to the other sideline..."Coach, #43 is now #46".
Is there a flag if he doesn't? NO, unless his star player comes out, with mistaken identity , the number of the third-string punter in an attempt to dupe the defense. I would consider that USC with possible 9-10-1 reporcussions .

Offline CalhounLJ

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Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 09:25:18 AM »
So let me make sure I understand.  If a team has been watching film and game planning for #10, but when the team show up on Friday night, the kid who’s been wearing 10 is now wearing 12, that’s a penalty? Or is it just when a kid changes numbers during a game?


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 01:31:15 PM »
So let me make sure I understand.  If a team has been watching film and game planning for #10, but when the team show up on Friday night, the kid who’s been wearing 10 is now wearing 12, that’s a penalty? Or is it just when a kid changes numbers during a game?

Why should misguided planning on the part of one team, cause something the other team has full power over the option to do, suffer consequences?

Offline CalhounLJ

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Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 02:03:46 PM »
Exactly. Which is my question. It either is or is not legal to change jersey numbers. Do you have an opinion?


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Online prab

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 02:04:44 PM »
No two Jerseys are EXACTLY alike.  Each jersey must be judged by the official who actually sees it.  Each team should anticipate which of its players is/are likely to need to have their jersey(s) replaced during the game and bring along extra jerseys of the same number.  An assistant coach who is an accomplished seamstress(ter) would be nice although probably not enough to be made mandatory.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 04:28:28 PM »
I think it would be very difficult to anticipate which players would need to change jerseys during the game. For instance, who knows whose jersey may become tainted with blood.  In that situation, is it permissible for a starter to change jerseys with a sub to stay in the game?


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 05:39:56 PM »
Exactly. Which is my question. It either is or is not legal to change jersey numbers. Do you have an opinion?


I'll stick with my original "opinion", it all depends on why, and for what reason or purpose, the jersey was changed, as considered and judged by the covering official.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 10:02:01 AM »
If deception (re-entering a disqualified player w/a different number / hiding a star player with someone else's number, etc) was the reason, IMHO, you could apply 9-8-1 = USC. Other than that, I can't see an issue with changing numbers during the game. Remember, re-entering a disqualified player is IP (8-6-4f) for previous spot enforcement. If it involved changing numbers to attempt this, his coach may have been involved and may also deserve an USC.

Offline KWH

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2017, 02:20:20 PM »
Years ago...
In the land of Idaho, during a rivalry game, #26 of "The Green Team" was disqualified for striking in the first half.
During the third quarter,  #36 of "The Green Team" scored a touchdown.
Several of the players of "The White Team" pointed out to The Officiating crew that Green 36 was "aka" Green 26 whom they ejected in the first half.
The officials gathered what to do... ^talk
It was decided to ask the head coach of The Green team!" 
The Head Coach "reluctantly and shamefully admitted" it was indeed true.
The officials gathered and discussed what to do... ^talk
FYI - The score was Green 35 - White 0 with 5 or so minutes left in the 3rd.
The officials issued a Flagrant Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul on the Head Coach and DQ's him!
The officials gathered and discussed what to do... ^talk
The officials then issued a  Flagrant illegal participation foul  on Green 36 and DQ'd him.
(Unclear if there is an individual record for most DQ's in one game,  but if so, 26/36 holds it)
There was still more conversation from two or more of the officials.
The officials gathered and discussed what to do... ^talk
(There was deep and delayed discussion and, while not unanimous), the crew issued the big announcement: The Referee is declaring the game a forfeit!
The score at the time was Green 35, White 0; however the Final score was changed to: White 1 - Green 0
The state association, at first, was reluctant to support the officials decision, and Black Smoke came out of the association office chimney for a few days. 
However, when there is disagreement among the ranks, there is always that pesky Rules Book (which can always be relied on to get in the way of a good ball game). In this case the Rules Book prevailed:
NFHS 1-1-10....The Referee's decision to forfeit a game is final.
NFHS 1-1-11...Protests of NFHS rules are not recognized.

The final score, White 1 - Green 0; was recorded as official.

1- I am hopeful I am never faced with a like situation.
2- I am not certain I would have had the balls to forfeit a game.
3- I was not there,  and as such I do not find any fault in the officials decision!
4- Sure would like to see a Casebook play that supported their decision.

Alf is absolutley correct when he posted:
...it all depends on why, and for what reason or purpose, the jersey was changed...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 02:31:04 PM by KWH »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 10:53:53 AM »
I'm sure, KWH, you were glad to be on the Oregon side of your border with Idaho for this one :).

IMHO:

IF the ejected player's IP foul was on the touchdown and was discovered by the opponents > the officials prior to the PAT = easy, TD is cancelled with previous spot enforcement. The coach would then be taken care of with his own USC which could/ should send him out with the naughty player.



IF the discovery was not discovered until after a succeeding play was run = I would consider applying 9-10-1, cancelling TD and PAT, and enforcing the IP after discovery. This rule can be applied when the applied rule isn't harsh enough (ie..player coming off bench to make TD saving tackle).

TO ME, a forfeit is like "vigilante justice" and, in this situation, the game should continue; BUT the Idaho State Association may have a penalty for playing an ineligible player ( flunked math / flunked everything / too old / violated transfer rules AND sneaking back in as in OP ). Said penalty might just be a forfeit.

Let the guys in the castle decide :sTiR:
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 10:57:24 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline sir55

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 03:31:06 PM »
As it turned out, the only reason for changing the color of the jerseys was because this was the last time either of them would be used. They wore the green in the first half and changed to red in the second half. No player number changed. The seniors gave the worn first half jersey to their parents during half time at the senior night.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Changing Jerseys at Halftime
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 09:47:01 AM »
IF a jersey needs to be replaced (blood-soaked, torn, etc.) and the coach is replacing a 1-49/ 80-99 with a 50-79 or vice-versa; it would be good to remind him that this WILL change the player's restrictions and limitations.

Much better for the game to correct it then, than after he's flagged for illegal formation or ineligible receiver.

Some misnomers are:
 Lineman numbers can play in backfield
 90-99 are eligible receiver numbers
 You can have more than five 50-79 numbers on the line, but you've lost potential reciever
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 10:06:01 AM by Ralph Damren »