Author Topic: Clarification  (Read 1211 times)

Offline jmckb99

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Clarification
« on: November 10, 2017, 11:32:31 AM »
Our crew is having a discussion on this scenario. Looking for some input as we can't agree.

Scenario: A, 1/G @ Bís 5 YL. B-34 intercepts A-10's forward pass in B's end zone. B-34 immediately throws a legal backwards pass to B-22. B-22
muffs the lateral and it goes OOB across the sideline behind B's goal line. After the interception and while the ball was loose, B-42 blocks below the waist in the end zone. What is the result?

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 11:36:30 AM »
Result of the play is a touchback.

10-4-6 defines the basic spot for this type of play. The basic spot is the 20 yard line.

This is a foul by the offense behind the basic spot, so we will enforce from the spot of the foul. Foul enforced in the end zone  = safety.

If B-42 had blocked on the B-2, it would not be a safety, but B's ball at the B-1 after enforcement.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 11:55:05 AM by ChicagoZebra »

Offline jmckb99

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 11:53:35 AM »
So All But One enforcement?  My question is why isn't there a rule that states this clearly? If it says that all fouls by the offense in the end zone result in safeties, then why doesn't 10-4-6 say basically the same for defensive fouls?

10-4-6
ART. 6 . . . The basic spot is the 20-yard line for fouls by either team when the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the foul is responsible for forcing the ball across the goal line of the team in possession, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 11:59:13 AM »
So All But One enforcement?  My question is why isn't there a rule that states this clearly? If it says that all fouls by the offense in the end zone result in safeties, then why doesn't 10-4-6 say basically the same for defensive fouls?

10-4-6
ART. 6 . . . The basic spot is the 20-yard line for fouls by either team when the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the foul is responsible for forcing the ball across the goal line of the team in possession, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

Yes, ABO enforcement.

10-4-6 just defines where the basic spot is for ABO enforcement. For your second comment, remember how ABO works and offense/defense designations.

For 10-4-6 situations like this one: All fouls by the defense and fouls by the offense beyond the 20 yard line will be enforced from the 20 yard line. Fouls by the offense behind the 20 yard line will be enforced from the spot of the foul. Remember the defense is the team without the ball - it can change during the down - do not confuse defense with team B in your initial scenario - team B is on offense after the interception!.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Clarification
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 12:13:03 PM »
It is very easy to get mixed up using the offense/defense designations. I much prefer to think of it as the team in possession vs the team not in possession. Makes it easier to follow in my mind.


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Offline gmgiesey

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 12:36:48 PM »
Rule 2-43-1. . . The offense is the team which is in possession of the ball. The opponent is the defense.

Rule 2-43-2 . . . A is the team which puts the ball in play. The opponent is B.

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 01:08:45 PM »
Our crew is having a discussion on this scenario. Looking for some input as we can't agree.

Scenario: A, 1/G @ Bís 5 YL. B-34 intercepts A-10's forward pass in B's end zone. B-34 immediately throws a legal backwards pass to B-22. B-22
muffs the lateral and it goes OOB across the sideline behind B's goal line. After the interception and while the ball was loose, B-42 blocks below the waist in the end zone. What is the result?
Guys:
Why would this not be a safety?  The team in possession caused the ball to become dead behind their own goal line.  And fouled in their own end zone.

What am I missing?

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 01:29:27 PM »
Guys:
Why would this not be a safety?  The team in possession caused the ball to become dead behind their own goal line.  And fouled in their own end zone.

What am I missing?

This is a safety after penalty enforcement. However, the result of the play without the foul is a touchback.

The forward pass by team A is the force that put the ball in the end zone.

The only force that matters is the one that causes the ball to cross the goal line!! What happens after that is irrelevant for determining safety/touchback/touchdown as far as force (or "responsibility") is concerned.

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 10:43:16 PM »
This is a safety after penalty enforcement. However, the result of the play without the foul is a touchback.

The forward pass by team A is the force that put the ball in the end zone.

The only force that matters is the one that causes the ball to cross the goal line!! What happens after that is irrelevant for determining safety/touchback/touchdown as far as force (or "responsibility") is concerned.
Thank you.
Brain cramp.

Offline wlemonnier

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 09:47:55 AM »
Because the foul occurred in the EZ the enforcement results in a safety.  Had the foul occurred in the field of play then the touchback stands and enforce the penalty from the spot of the foul or the 20 yard line, whichever hurts Team B the most.  But, again due not the foul by B in the EZ the safety ruling is correct.
Bill LeMonnier