Author Topic: Unsporting Acts  (Read 2635 times)

Offline the clown

  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • FAN REACTION: +6/-18
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Unsporting Acts
« on: November 26, 2017, 11:33:11 AM »
We had this play in a Semi-Final the other night.  Tie game with 3:00 minutes left on the clock in the forth quarter.  70 yard reception where the defender falls down the receiver, instead of running into the end-zone stops at the one yard line, turns to face the defense and waits for the defense (which had basically stopped)    The defense realizes the clock is ticking, away runs at the receiver and when they get close, he steps into the end-zone.  Nothing was said,  The receiver didn't taunt, wave the ball, point to the sky, ect.  The back judge threw a flag for unsportsmanlike on the receiver.  Of course the 35 yard PAT was missed and of course the offended team scored with one minute left and made their extra point.  Of course the penalized team feels the officials cost the team the game.  Right or wrong, I value all of your opinions and would like to hear from you about this call.  My season ended last Friday and I'd like to thank you all of you for making me a better official.  The following article is pretty accurate and there is some links to a video of the play. http://www.ysn365.com/news/newman-rancho-game-more-than-just-controversy/

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1219
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-44
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 12:32:09 PM »
While unusual - and, to some - ethically questionable, I see no difference between the runner's act of delaying his "entrance" into the EZ and when, late in games, with the clock running, the team in possession and ahead in the score, delays the snap until the last second.

I assume the R in this game, agreed with the B that this was USC or was reticent to "suggest" that he pick up his flag; but I don't think there is any real rules support for either USC or an Unfair Act.

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 3360
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-489
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 12:47:18 PM »
I would agree.  The receiver, to his credit, was obviously aware of the game clock and took legal advantage of his opportunity to reduce the time remaining for his opponent.  There is no requirement to score, as quickly as possible, and it is a legal opportunity to tactically consume time.

Had there been any demeaning gesture, either to the opponents, or in an egregious effort to bring exaggerated attention to himself he would have been guilty of an UNC foul.  In the absence of either, there doesn't appear to be any such foul committed.

Of course, what happened thereafter was NOT caused by the application of a foul, rather was the result of allowing the opponent to score again.

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 694
  • FAN REACTION: +42/-9
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 02:28:28 PM »
Based on the your description and the newspaper description, I agree with Curious and Al. I don't think there is rule book support to call that USC.

Offline KWH

  • *
  • Posts: 322
  • FAN REACTION: +74/-39
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 08:36:26 PM »
Its called Taunting!
I have one UNS foul for violating two rules: 
Rule 9-5-1a &
Rule 9-5-1c
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 11:17:35 PM by KWH »

Offline prab

  • *
  • Posts: 549
  • FAN REACTION: +33/-41
  • Wherever you go, there you are!
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2017, 10:10:08 PM »
We had a similar situation whereby A1 broke away (late in the game).  With no B players near him, he stopped at the B 1 yard line, made a 90 degree turn and ran parallel to the goal line until B chased him into the end zone.  R ruled it a UC and gave B the choice of enforcing the 15 yard penalty on the try or on the kick off.  I don't recall the score at the time of the incident and B did not make a miraculous comeback. 

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 3360
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-489
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 09:10:34 AM »
Its called Taunting!
I have one UNS foul for violating two rules: 
Rule 9-5-1a &
Rule 9-5-1c

"Taunting" (thankfully) is considered a serious breach of sportsmanship at the Interscholastic level, and is not, nor should be tolerated, excused or ignored.  It should NOT, however, be manufactured or exaggerated, as that serves more to "water it down" than strictly enforce and focus disdain and consequence to it.

As this scenario is described, neither 9-5-1a or 1c, fit the incident mentioned. There is no mention, or even suggestion, of, "Baiting or taunting acts or words or insignia worn which engenders ill will (9-5-1a).", or, "Any delayed, excessive or prolonged act BY WHICH A PLAYER ATTEMPTS to focus attention upon himself (9-5-1c)."

Offline BIG UMP

  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • FAN REACTION: +3/-1
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 02:14:18 PM »
I've got nothing and no rule support to create something.  This is situational awareness.

For those who would flag this.  QB takes the snap and runs backward and around until he is about to get tackled then slides or runs into EZ for a safety.  Should be a foul.
Big Ump
aka Shawn

"EVERY JOB IS A SELF-PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT.  AUTOGRAPH YOUR WORK WITH EXCELLENCE."~unknown

Offline NVFOA_Ump

  • *
  • Posts: 2840
  • FAN REACTION: +71/-101
  • High School (MA)
    • Massachusetts Independent Football Officials Association
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2017, 09:09:03 PM »
I've got nothing and no rule support to create something.  This is situational awareness.


I'd agree here.  Under 3 minutes in the 4th quarter and ball carrier is about to score with no defender near him.  As long as there is no theatrics that cross the taunting line, kudos to the player for having the smarts to burn some clock before scoring the go ahead points.  I'm not penalizing him for using his smarts and knowing the clock situation.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline SCHSref

  • *
  • Posts: 263
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-9
  • In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 09:16:46 AM »
I don't see the act in the OP as anything worse than the following:

purposely snapping the ball as late as possible to "burn" clock
consistently running the ball up the middle in order to keep the clock running
In soccer, taking the ball to the corner flag and shielding players off of the ball with no intention to dribble or shoot
In basketball, the old 4 corners

Or

Having to officiate a middle school girls basketball game with the final score 10-8.
If you didn't see it, you can't call it

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2574
  • FAN REACTION: +317/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 11:40:41 AM »
I would consider the following to be "game smarts" and not unsportsmanlike in trying to consume time:

(1) A QB waiting until the BJ starts his "poor man's stop watch" before asking for a snap. yEs:

(2) A WH z^ waiting for the  sNiCkErS umpire  sNiCkErS, until the clock was under 0:25 in a blowout, to pick up his sNiCkErS bar before signaling RFP  ;) . yEs:

(3) The OP... yEs:

Offline KWH

  • *
  • Posts: 322
  • FAN REACTION: +74/-39
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 11:48:27 AM »
"Taunting" (thankfully) is considered a serious breach of sportsmanship at the Interscholastic level, and is not, nor should be tolerated, excused or ignored.  It should NOT, however, be manufactured or exaggerated, as that serves more to "water it down" than strictly enforce and focus disdain and consequence to it.

As this scenario is described, neither 9-5-1a or 1c, fit the incident mentioned. There is no mention, or even suggestion, of, "Baiting or taunting acts or words or insignia worn which engenders ill will (9-5-1a).", or, "Any delayed, excessive or prolonged act BY WHICH A PLAYER ATTEMPTS to focus attention upon himself (9-5-1c)."

Do you interpret this act as a player attempting to focus attention on the Prom Queen?
 

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 3360
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-489
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2017, 02:51:04 PM »
Do you interpret this act as a player attempting to focus attention on the Prom Queen?

Unless, and until, the player induced the Prom Queen to join him on the 1 yard line, it wouldn't be a live ball USC foul, whereas any subsequent score could be nullified by acceptance.  If the Prom Queen joined him in the EZ, it would be a dead ball foul, the score would count and enforcement would be on the try, if one was necessary.

Not sure either who is responsible, or who gets to enjoy lobster cocktails (likely depends on the State alcohol laws, where the game has been played)

Offline VA Official

  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-5
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2017, 06:07:03 PM »
We had a similar situation whereby A1 broke away (late in the game).  With no B players near him, he stopped at the B 1 yard line, made a 90 degree turn and ran parallel to the goal line until B chased him into the end zone.  R ruled it a UC and gave B the choice of enforcing the 15 yard penalty on the try or on the kick off.  I don't recall the score at the time of the incident and B did not make a miraculous comeback.

I know running parallel to the goal line has been ruled an UNS in NCAA (live ball foul there), but I donít think thereís case book or rules book support to make this one in NFHS unless the player is taunting as well.

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2244
  • FAN REACTION: +70/-25
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 06:03:35 AM »
I've got nothing and no rule support to create something.  This is situational awareness.

Agree.  No taunting? No problem.

Online Legacy Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 520
  • FAN REACTION: +40/-9
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 09:07:55 AM »
Running parallel to the goal line without taunting an opponent is not a foul in NCAA.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2574
  • FAN REACTION: +317/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 09:29:46 AM »
Do you interpret this act as a player attempting to focus attention on the Prom Queen?
If said Prom Queen should enter the playing field during a live ball, without provocation, she would be guilty of Un Queen-like Conduct. While no football fouls were committed, it was certainly a breach of queen-like behavior. To hold her throne, she would be required to wear her crown in all classes and study halls for a period of not less than ten school days. This would include time as a cheerleader, but would exempt her participation in soccer or field hockey as it would be considered illegal equipment.

Offline PABJNR

  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-3
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Unsporting Acts
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 04:36:38 PM »
Unless, and until, the player induced the Prom Queen to join him on the 1 yard line, it wouldn't be a live ball USC foul, whereas any subsequent score could be nullified by acceptance.  If the Prom Queen joined him in the EZ, it would be a dead ball foul, the score would count and enforcement would be on the try, if one was necessary.

Not sure either who is responsible, or who gets to enjoy lobster cocktails (likely depends on the State alcohol laws, where the game has been played)

Live ball UNS or dead ball UNS do not matter the score is going to count either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 3360
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-489
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2017, 07:00:29 PM »
Live ball UNS or dead ball UNS do not matter the score is going to count either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You might want to check NFHS again.

Offline PABJNR

  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-3
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Unsporting Acts
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 07:35:24 PM »
Al case book 8.2.2 situation G on page 66. Also rules 10-4-5, 10-5-3 and 8-2-4.  USC penalties do not nullify scores.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline VA Official

  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-5
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2017, 01:55:17 PM »
Running parallel to the goal line without taunting an opponent is not a foul in NCAA.

I thought AR 9-2-1-IX was all-encompassing, but the word "trot" construes taunting while he is running along the goal line I presume. Thanks.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2574
  • FAN REACTION: +317/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 08:05:53 AM »
USC by scoring team prior to the score has succeeding spot enforcement.

EXAMPLE : On a breakaway run, the runner decides to "moonwalk the last 5 yards while blowing kisses to the Prom Queen =  ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag (man-crew) . Opponent's choices = PAT from 18 or KO from 25. Runner is now on "double-secret probation".

RATIONALE : Like the ole' adage ,"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names (or unsportsmanlike acts) can never hurt me!"; the act had no baring on the outcome of the play = succeeding spot enforcement is fair.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 08:39:52 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2244
  • FAN REACTION: +70/-25
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2017, 06:59:03 AM »
Like the ole' adage ,"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names (or unsportsmanlike acts) can never hurt me!"; the act had no baring on the outcome of the play = succeeding spot enforcement is fair.

Many would beg to differ with you on this one, Ralph.  While there may be no immediate harm, such taunting could lead to retaliation, and will almost certainly engender ill will.

Making this a live-ball foul, with ABO enforcement, would likely drop the number of incidents to almost zero, IMO.

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 456
  • FAN REACTION: +11/-19
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Unsporting Acts
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 07:32:17 AM »
True, it could lead to undesirable behavior in the future, but notice, Ralph said it had no bearing on the outcome of that particular play. In other words, the foul did not contribute to the ability of the player to score. Making it a live ball foul would be contrary to the basic philosophy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2574
  • FAN REACTION: +317/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Unsporting Acts
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2017, 07:43:34 AM »
I believe it is treated as a live ball foul in NCAA. It was on our docket once but the concern was that we call few marginal ones now, if it became a live ball foul, even fewer would be called.