Author Topic: NFHS Questionnaire  (Read 6095 times)

Offline bossman72

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NFHS Questionnaire
« on: December 05, 2017, 03:15:49 PM »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 04:00:54 PM »
poll is down, whatever Surveymonkey 500 is, it's on a break, suggests trying again later.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 09:04:25 AM »
It's up and running now.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 09:30:20 AM »
I am really disappointed in the format. Strictly yes or no answers. We’ve been asking for something free form to provide input. Obviously that is not important to the committee.  ???
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline theunofficialofficial

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 01:27:58 PM »
Starting a 40-second play count when the ball is ruled dead after a down.

Can we also get the clock to start when umpire places the ball after runner goes out of bounds?

I look forward to the results!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 01:29:48 PM by theunofficialofficial »

Offline SouthGARef

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 02:42:20 PM »
I am really disappointed in the format. Strictly yes or no answers. We’ve been asking for something free form to provide input. Obviously that is not important to the committee.  ???

http://www.nfhs.org/RuleChangeProposal

I don't know if this is looked at or not, but it can't hurt.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 09:01:42 PM »
I am really disappointed in the format. Strictly yes or no answers. We’ve been asking for something free form to provide input. Obviously that is not important to the committee.  ???

Can we at least get three options?

a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Aww, h-e-double-hockey sticks naw!!

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 07:58:04 AM »
I am really disappointed in the format. Strictly yes or no answers. We’ve been asking for something free form to provide input. Obviously that is not important to the committee.  ???
The "free forum" is bending the ear of your state rep. If you find him unavailable / untouchable, you can bend my ear (eyes) and I'll listen (read).

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 08:04:15 AM »
Starting a 40-second play count when the ball is ruled dead after a down.

Can we also get the clock to start when umpire places the ball after runner goes out of bounds?

I look forward to the results!

40 second clock ,nah (opposite of ayuh).

RFP after OOB, while not on the questionnaire, may still be a proposed rule change. The hurdle in former years was reverting to old rule in last 2 mins. of half. I haven't heard of any problems with the change of timing in same timeframe from last year's change, which should add support.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 08:12:00 AM »
http://www.nfhs.org/RuleChangeProposal

I don't know if this is looked at or not, but it can't hurt.
These proposals must be received by NFHS by November 1st, BUT they must also be submitted through your state association. Developing a good relationship with your state's rules committee rep can be helpful in this procedure. Invite him to speak at one of your meetings.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 08:57:29 AM »
"HOW USEFUL IS THE QUESTIONNAIRE ?? "...You might ask. It used to be very valuable BUT limited.
Each state was assigned (somewhat like our Electorial College) a number of votes based on the number of schools playing football. Example : Maine had 3 coach, 5 official, and 1 state vote; any item receiving +50% would go automatically to the final regardless of how the sub-committee felt. This was changed several years ago (when the Curse of the Babe Ruth still haunted the Sox), to allow everyone to vote but no longer would those with +50% going directly to the final vote.

We are supplied with the final votes and the results are taken and discussed in our sub-committees.

YOUR VOTE COUNTS --STAND UP (LOG ON) AND BE COUNTED !!

 tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: (34 = NUMBER NEEDED TO PASS A NEW RULE
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 08:59:00 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline KWH

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 12:33:38 PM »
I am really disappointed in the format. Strictly yes or no answers. We’ve been asking for something free form to provide input. Obviously that is not important to the committee.  ???

 ??? So... Please provide a little more info such as; Who is "We" and to whom did "We" ask?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:33:15 PM by KWH »

Offline Magician

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2017, 01:30:17 AM »
??? So... Please provide a little more info such as; Who is "We" and to whom did "We" ask?

I think the challenge with free form is you would potential have so many comments to read through it would take forever. You would need some sophisticated software to read the answers and try to group them or have someone manually do that for the committee. I have no idea how many responses you get, but I have to think there are at least 40-50k officials and at least that many coaches and administrators who were invited to complete the survey. If only 10% of that group did the survey and provided feedback that would be 8-10k comments for each question. Good luck with that!

Offline LAZebra

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 02:33:52 PM »
Starting a 40-second play count when the ball is ruled dead after a down.

Can we also get the clock to start when umpire places the ball after runner goes out of bounds?

I look forward to the results!

This is the only way I would be in favor of the 40 second play clock.  I do have a concern that we already have difficulty getting a quality job from play clock operators (who are usually officials in Alabama), adding the element of having to understand a clock that is sometimes 40 and sometimes 25 and sometimes starts on the dead ball and sometimes on the ready, is more than some would be able to comprehend.
None of these fans paid to see us

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 01:39:54 PM »
agree. I am in favor of starting the clock on RFP after OOB.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 09:13:16 PM »
This is the only way I would be in favor of the 40 second play clock.  I do have a concern that we already have difficulty getting a quality job from play clock operators (who are usually officials in Alabama), adding the element of having to understand a clock that is sometimes 40 and sometimes 25 and sometimes starts on the dead ball and sometimes on the ready, is more than some would be able to comprehend.

For what it's worth when Texas went to the 40 / 25 we didn't have any major issues.  Depending on where you are, the clock operators are usually just someone locally the school has been using for years.  Sure they aren't perfect but their mistakes have nothing to do with the 40 being new and usually it's just they are a second or two late on starting it.  Other locations the football officials chapter assigns members to operate the clock and I would expect them to be more sound in operating the clock as they have received better training.

Offline Magician

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 12:10:33 AM »
For what it's worth when Texas went to the 40 / 25 we didn't have any major issues.  Depending on where you are, the clock operators are usually just someone locally the school has been using for years.  Sure they aren't perfect but their mistakes have nothing to do with the 40 being new and usually it's just they are a second or two late on starting it.  Other locations the football officials chapter assigns members to operate the clock and I would expect them to be more sound in operating the clock as they have received better training.
Not an issue in Indiana either the past 2 years. All our schools use some local person for game and play clocks. They are often volunteers or teachers. It's almost always 40 unless there is some kind of administrative stop (i.e. change of possession, time out, score, penalty enforcement). When it needs to be 25 the crew won't start anything until it's set to 25. The biggest issue has been game clock operators not starting the game clock on the wind after a first down because the R generally doesn't blow a whistle when that's done. It wasn't an issue in most games, but there were some clock operators who seemed to space it. The coaches and officials here love it because the pace is so much more consistent.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 10:29:51 AM »
The biggest issue has been game clock operators not starting the game clock on the wind after a first down because the R generally doesn't blow a whistle when that's done.

The R doesn't blow the whistle at the RFP after a first down? Wut?

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 10:43:59 AM »
while I support a 40/25 in theory...
It will increase DOG penalties, and since after a DOG the clock is on the snap, it will make 2.75-3hr HS games even longer.

Perhaps, bring in 40/25, but also start the clock on the ready for: OOB, COP. - heck I'll say after incomplete passes also (might as we ll ask santa for the moon and settle for what he gives me).



Offline prab

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 11:24:56 AM »
Question for those of you who are already using the 40/25 system.  Do all of your fields have play clocks that are visible to the QB?  Is the BJ still required to give a visible countdown of the last 5 seconds of the play clock?  Was cost of a major factor in your state's decision? 

Wisconsin has not yet discussed going to a 40/25 system.  However, a proposal to go to a 35 second shot clock for basketball was recently tabled, with cost being a major consideration.

Offline Magician

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 02:24:07 PM »
The R doesn't blow the whistle at the RFP after a first down? Wut?
Not usually no. He's not blowing a ready for play. He's just restarting the game clock. The ball is ready for play when the U steps away from the ball. They are often very close together, but not necessarily the same time. There is nothing that says you can't blow the whistle, but it's not really needed for the players on the field or the coaches. The play clock has already started. If you watch college games, the R is usually winding the game clock before the ball is even down. I haven't seen that much urgency by HS Rs and I don't think it's necessary.

Offline Magician

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 02:33:43 PM »
while I support a 40/25 in theory...
It will increase DOG penalties, and since after a DOG the clock is on the snap, it will make 2.75-3hr HS games even longer.

Perhaps, bring in 40/25, but also start the clock on the ready for: OOB, COP. - heck I'll say after incomplete passes also (might as we ll ask santa for the moon and settle for what he gives me).
We have seen no increase in DOG fouls. Why would you expect that? Our average game time the past 2 seasons was 2:20-2:25 and most were shorter than that. We had a couple longer ones (i.e. 2:45-2:50) that made the average higher. It's really easy for the teams to get into a cadence with the 40-second clock. It's the pace we were supposed to follow with the 25 second clock (12-15 seconds from dead to RFP plus a 25 second clock = 37-40 seconds dead to DOG). Do you have a lot of delays getting the ball rotated back to the middle? Do your R's let the QB go to the sideline to get the play and return to the huddle to call the play before starting the 25-second clock?

I don't feel the HS rules need to start the game clock on OOB and COP. Game time is not an issue in most games.

Offline Magician

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 02:46:42 PM »
Question for those of you who are already using the 40/25 system.  Do all of your fields have play clocks that are visible to the QB?  Is the BJ still required to give a visible countdown of the last 5 seconds of the play clock?  Was cost of a major factor in your state's decision? 

Wisconsin has not yet discussed going to a 40/25 system.  However, a proposal to go to a 35 second shot clock for basketball was recently tabled, with cost being a major consideration.
Almost all HS varsity fields in Indiana have visible play clocks. In 17 seasons I've never worked a HS game at any level without a visible play clock. I'm told there are a couple fields that don't have them, but I'm not sure where they are. Some of the schools did have to pay for a system upgrade to allow the play clock to toggle between 40 and 25. I know some were due for hardware upgrades anyway so they were planned expenses. I didn't hear about too many complaints for costs. But the officials generally wouldn't hear about that anyway.

The BJ doesn't do anything with a visible play clock. From what I've heard though you don't need to have a visible play clock. I've heard those who have the BJ keep the 25-second play clock are fairly liberal with it anyway until the end of a half. I don't know why it would be any different here.

Our state rules rep is the one who drove the initial experiment. His reason for doing it was the incredibly inconsistent time between dead and ready within a game and especially game to game between different crews. There were times it was as quick as 5-6 seconds and other times it was 45-60 seconds. You can coach all you want but you can't monitor it or enforce it consistently with 150 games being played every Friday night. We don't have an exhaustive supervisor or assigner system. This was a great way to implement consistency and the coaches LOVE it! They sometimes travel to border states and have to go back to 25-second clocks and they hate it.


Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 04:02:52 PM »
We have seen no increase in DOG fouls. Why would you expect that? Our average game time the past 2 seasons was 2:20-2:25 and most were shorter than that. We had a couple longer ones (i.e. 2:45-2:50) that made the average higher. It's really easy for the teams to get into a cadence with the 40-second clock. It's the pace we were supposed to follow with the 25 second clock (12-15 seconds from dead to RFP plus a 25 second clock = 37-40 seconds dead to DOG). Do you have a lot of delays getting the ball rotated back to the middle? Do your R's let the QB go to the sideline to get the play and return to the huddle to call the play before starting the 25-second clock?

I don't feel the HS rules need to start the game clock on OOB and COP. Game time is not an issue in most games.
I'm sure every place is difference.
Long games are the norm round these parts.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2018, 05:39:18 AM »
I don't feel the HS rules need to start the game clock on OOB and COP. Game time is not an issue in most games.

It is here.  After the 1996 changes, our Friday night start times had to be moved up 30 minutes & the TV highlight shows start 30 minutes later than before.  Most eateries close at 10:00 PM (and I live in a 100,000+ town), leaving only the McDs et al.

I'm not in favor of starting on COP, but starting on INCs and OOBs outside of the last 2 minutes would likely do the trick.