Author Topic: NFHS Questionnaire  (Read 5507 times)

Offline CalhounLJ

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NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2018, 06:35:11 AM »
I typically drive 2 hours to and 2 hours back. Moved out of my district several years ago and couldn’t bear to start over with a different crew. I’m blessed to have Friday’s off, so it’s not a problem. I say that to say this: travel time and total time shouldn’t factor into the equation. We all accept those things when we sign up.  I completely agree with the bottom half of your post.


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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2018, 07:18:35 AM »
That being said, I'm not complaining about "long" games either. It's not like there's somewhere else I need to be at 10pm on a Friday and these games are keeping me from it.

That's fine on a Friday night.  But remember -- the same rules apply on Monday, Tuesday & Thursday nights for subvarsity games.  Yes, the clock time is typically reduced in these games to 8 or 10 minute quarters, but that still results in 2 hour games.  And that's on a school night.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2018, 07:47:29 AM »
I typically drive 2 hours to and 2 hours back. Moved out of my district several years ago and couldn’t bear to start over with a different crew. I’m blessed to have Friday’s off, so it’s not a problem. I say that to say this: travel time and total time shouldn’t factor into the equation. We all accept those things when we sign up.  I completely agree with the bottom half of your post.


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I'm mostly just saying that if you're going to stick a number in there and do math to get to $30/hr, it should be an honest number. Also, $100 game? Lucky.... but yeah, if it wasn't worth my time, as many hours as it is, I wouldn't be doing it.

That's fine on a Friday night.  But remember -- the same rules apply on Monday, Tuesday & Thursday nights for subvarsity games.  Yes, the clock time is typically reduced in these games to 8 or 10 minute quarters, but that still results in 2 hour games.  And that's on a school night.

At least around my area, most coaches also understand that too and encourage a faster game on Thursday than they do on Friday. When talking to coaches pregame, about 75% of the time when asked about timing -- "Conference rules state we have to play 12 minute quarters, but I don't care, we're playing 10". The other 25% of the time, they don't mention the conference rules and just say 10 minute quarters. A couple times a year, a coach asks halfheartedly if halftime can by <10 minutes too.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2018, 09:10:20 AM »

WELCOME SUGGESTIONS....

I know this is state-by-state, but how about a mercy rule of 24 points (3 TDs and 3 2-pt conversions)?  In FL, it's currently 35, and when one team gets that far ahead we're doing two things - enforcing safety-related fouls only (especially against the team that is behind) and trying to prevent fights from breaking out.  I can't remember the biggest point differential that I've seen overcome, but I suspect it's not more than 3 TDs.  Some of our schools are simply much better than others so blowouts are going to happen.  Even when schools are more evenly matched, teenagers react differently to being down by 21 than pros.  You can often tell by body language that a team has given up when they're down more than 2 scores.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2018, 11:49:12 AM »
on the topic of mercy rule, for what it's worth in wrestling if you reach 15 point differential the match is terminated.  Baseball games are terminated too.
certainly apples & oranges but both are not state rules but national rules and perhaps a national mercy rule for football..

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2018, 03:37:50 PM »
on the topic of mercy rule, for what it's worth in wrestling if you reach 15 point differential the match is terminated.  Baseball games are terminated too.
certainly apples & oranges but both are not state rules but national rules and perhaps a national mercy rule for football..

I know absolutely nothing about wrestling, but the run rule in baseball is subject to state association adoption: By state association adoption, the game shall end when the visiting team is behind 10 or more runs after 4˝ innings, or after the fifth inning, if either team is 10 runs behind and both teams have had an equal number of times at bat.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2018, 03:39:18 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about wrestling, but the run rule in baseball is subject to state association adoption: By state association adoption, the game shall end when the visiting team is behind 10 or more runs after 4˝ innings, or after the fifth inning, if either team is 10 runs behind and both teams have had an equal number of times at bat.
Not that it matters that much. I wish our state would adopt a points differential running clock procedure.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2018, 08:39:07 AM »
I know absolutely nothing about wrestling, but the run rule in baseball is subject to state association adoption: By state association adoption, the game shall end when the visiting team is behind 10 or more runs after 4˝ innings, or after the fifth inning, if either team is 10 runs behind and both teams have had an equal number of times at bat.
really? i swear it was NFHS for mery rule baseball.
I stand corrected and redact that.....drat, sorry fellas.
heck, i dont know of a state that doesnt have a mery rule for baseball.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2018, 08:37:36 AM »
I know absolutely nothing about wrestling, but the run rule in baseball is subject to state association adoption: By state association adoption, the game shall end when the visiting team is behind 10 or more runs after 4˝ innings, or after the fifth inning, if either team is 10 runs behind and both teams have had an equal number of times at bat.
The "mercy rule" in baseball (4-2-2) differs slightly than ours in football as the 10 runs is fixed if a state chooses to use it. If football, a state can decide how many points would determine mercy.

PS : I like Connecticut's ,where the coach of the winning team is suspended for one game if his victory exceeds 50 points !!

   aWaRd P_S pi1eOn P_S :thumbup

Offline FLAHL

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2018, 09:25:07 AM »

PS : I like Connecticut's ,where the coach of the winning team is suspended for one game if his victory exceeds 50 points !!


I like that too!
I worked a lopsided JV game years ago with one team ahead by a lot and pitching a shutout, but no running clock, in the 2nd half.  The winning team had their 2nd team defense in, and the other team was driving.  One of the coaches on the sideline was yelling "Starting D, get ready" and the head coach said "We will NOT put the starters back in."  Best example of sportsmanship I've seen in a while.
Sadly I have many candidates for worst example, including a game this year with one team ahead 35-0 coming out and starting the 2nd half with an onside kick.  What are these guys thinking?

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2018, 10:05:52 AM »
A year after a College team embarrassingly drubbed a Conference opponent, the teams met again and the previously losing HC was asked if he held and ill feelings about the winning HC.  He responded, "Not at all, during the warm up he gave me the "Peace" sign from the opposite sideline, and I promptly gave him, "half of it back".

Sooner or later, what goes around eventually comes around.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2018, 10:21:55 AM »
We need to be careful of what we wish for when considering modifications of Rule 3.

Before Maine installed a mercy rule a few years ago, we would use our version of a running clock with the agreement of the coaches. We would start the clock on ALL RFPs if it had stopped for any reason. This would often complete the 2nd half in 30-35 minutes ,if initiated at halftime. I think we can all agree that a game lasting 80-90 minutes is a tad too short.

I am, and will continue to be, a strong proponent of these changes :

3-4-3a ..start on RFP if ball or player with ball goes OOB - NCAA rule for several years without any known problems. Revert to current practice in last  2 minutes in each half. This year's new rule should prove that it can be managed.

3-4-3i..start on RFP after DOG -opponents can request snap under 3-4-7 and many DOGs occur during situations where the team is just tardy and not trying to consume time.

3-4-3j..this was put in when the return kick was eliminated back in 1965, so a free kick after a fair catch wouldn't start the clock until legally touched. 1996 COP rule change corrected that and no longer needed.

Note : I was a NCAA game clock operator when they experimented with starting on RFP on ALL COPs- even 4th down incomplete passes - that experiment didn't last long. IMHO, the OOB>RFP would help considerably.
 

Offline prab

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2018, 12:49:39 PM »
Is there any hint yet at what (if any) possible rule changes for 2018 are likely to make it at least to the discussion phase?

Offline ncwingman

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2018, 09:17:51 PM »
3-4-3a ..start on RFP if ball or player with ball goes OOB - NCAA rule for several years without any known problems. Revert to current practice in last  2 minutes in each half. This year's new rule should prove that it can be managed.

I have to say that I think the new timing rule after accepted penalties came up once for me -- and in a JV game at that. I'm unconvinced that paying attention to the clock to change rules under 2 minutes has really been tested heavily.

Quote
Note : I was a NCAA game clock operator when they experimented with starting on RFP on ALL COPs- even 4th down incomplete passes - that experiment didn't last long. IMHO, the OOB>RFP would help considerably.

My "favorite" exploit of that rule was Wisconsin being deliberately offsides on kickoffs and running out 24 seconds by having kick off three times since the clock started on the kick, not when it was legally touched. Of course, don't they also have a tack-on option for penalty administration for that now?

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2018, 06:47:39 AM »
 sNiCkErS
3-4-3a ..start on RFP if ball or player with ball goes OOB - NCAA rule for several years without any known problems. Revert to current practice in last  2 minutes in each half. This year's new rule should prove that it can be managed.

 : :thumbup

Since that proposal expands the 2-minute window, lets go ahead and include incomplete passes in that window as well.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2018, 10:19:13 AM »
Is there any hint yet at what (if any) possible rule changes for 2018 are likely to make it at least to the discussion phase?

All questions on the questionnaire are also rule proposals....
  All those proposals are considered hot topics.....
    All those hot topics will be discussed.....
      They are also others ;)...

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2018, 10:23:27 AM »
I know this is state-by-state, but how about a mercy rule of 24 points (3 TDs and 3 2-pt conversions)?  In FL, it's currently 35, and when one team gets that far ahead we're doing two things - enforcing safety-related fouls only (especially against the team that is behind) and trying to prevent fights from breaking out.  I can't remember the biggest point differential that I've seen overcome, but I suspect it's not more than 3 TDs.  Some of our schools are simply much better than others so blowouts are going to happen.  Even when schools are more evenly matched, teenagers react differently to being down by 21 than pros.  You can often tell by body language that a team has given up when they're down more than 2 scores.

I once watched a Super Bowl where a team was down 25 points and came back to win

 nAnA aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd nAnA       :)

Time for some lobster chowder  eAt& tiphat:

Offline FLAHL

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2018, 12:03:44 PM »
I once watched a Super Bowl where a team was down 25 points and came back to win


Me, right after finishing my lunch.

 :puke:

Offline Rich

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2018, 12:09:28 PM »
As stated many times on this site, that's not a necessity of the 40/25.

I live in a state where we use *no* visible play clocks, not even when a field has them.

I am a huge proponent of the 40/25.  Officials will get used to it quickly, and quite frankly, I've seen so many variations in the pace of play from one R to another when watching games I'm not working (I'm an R and I am a proponent of "get it down and blow the whistle") that it would add a layer of consistency that is sorely lacking around here.  We can't be the only ones where this is the case.

As far as manipulating the RFP (and therefore the play clock) in blow-outs, etc., I doubt that we're ever really taking more than 40 seconds between plays anyway and it's a small price to pay to have consistency across the board.

I really think this would *improve the game* and I'd really like to see the committee look at this and other timing rules -- I wouldn't want to see them alter these rules every season, but it's been about 20 years since the last major timing change and it does feel like it's time.

(FWIW, I would never run the game clock after incomplete passes.  No other level does that and we can recover quite a bit of time by simply starting the clock when the ball is spotted after plays that go out of bounds outside of 2 minutes.  And with the 40 starting immediately after an INC, crews will get a ball and get it down quicker, IMO.)

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2018, 02:39:38 PM »
Rich:
getting the ball down quicker after INC certainly has to do with the ballboy too. - which sometimes is a challenge.

I would be interested in see the game length difference on today's games v games where clock runs on the ready for OOB & INC.
I suppose if someone has a game tape of a HS tv game it would be easy. Round these parts, there's the game of the week on friday nights and the same network shows all state finals. I would be willing to a study for NFHS over a few cold beverages and watch a few of these ..but do not know any contacts there.

FLHL - you know anyone who works with that station?

just thinking about a state final game I saw the stats was something like: 63 total points and 26 incomplete passes.
In very basic terms, if there was 20 seconds of idle time (clock not running on the ready) for each of the 26 plays  = more than 8.5 minutes.
I think it's safe to say there were 26 OOB plays..toss in another 8.5 minutes.  This would take a +/- 3-hour (or more) game down to +/- 2.75 hours.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #70 on: January 18, 2018, 09:21:20 AM »

FLHL - you know anyone who works with that station?


I don't know anyone personally, but their website has a "contact us" page with links to some folks who might be able to help.  http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/sports/contact-bhsn.html

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Questionnaire
« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2018, 04:12:11 PM »
I don't know anyone personally, but their website has a "contact us" page with links to some folks who might be able to help.  http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/sports/contact-bhsn.html
FYI. you can stream this year's games, but you must go through your Spectrum on-line acct, etc...which I dont have.
I looked at youtube and they have several.

Think I may look at 1 or 2 and document:
1-# of OOB plays and time standing still after RFP.
2-# of INC plays and time standing still after RFP.
total the time via the time ticker at the bottom and provide data.
(now to find an apprioriate beverage to complete this task)