Author Topic: Visible bandannas  (Read 2244 times)

Offline stormref99

  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-0
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Visible bandannas
« on: December 23, 2017, 05:49:08 PM »
Visible bandannas noticed on highlight players during both the HP vs Manvel and Allen vs Lake Travis games.

Rule 1-4-7-j: Illegal equipment: visible bandannas worn on the field outside the team area.

This is a safety issue, and needs to be called, or at least warned and corrected before coming back on the field? Should have been caught during pre-game.

Learn it, Know it, Live it!

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1604
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-26
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 06:12:53 PM »
If we are really that worried about bandana’s then we don’t have enough to worry about.  Just one guy’s opinion.

Offline bctgp

  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • FAN REACTION: +3/-8
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 11:07:38 PM »
I noticed it in several games as well - very visible not just a little hanging out it was big. I wonder if it was addressed pregame as it was never addressed during the game as it went unchanged from start to finish.  Just like a pad exposed. We don't overly worry about it but we don't let it go unexposed the whole game. Do your best to get it covered or we'll send you to the sideline to get it fixed.  I don't get why some officials are afraid to address it.

Offline TxSkyBolt

  • *
  • Posts: 1864
  • FAN REACTION: +40/-45
Visible bandannas
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 10:11:57 AM »
If we are really that worried about bandana’s then we don’t have enough to worry about.  Just one guy’s opinion.
You have an opinion? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 528
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-4
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 04:53:57 PM »
Visible bandannas noticed on highlight players during both the HP vs Manvel and Allen vs Lake Travis games.

Rule 1-4-7-j: Illegal equipment: visible bandannas worn on the field outside the team area.

This is a safety issue, and needs to be called, or at least warned and corrected before coming back on the field? Should have been caught during pre-game.

Learn it, Know it, Live it!
A bandana sticking out the back of a helmet isn't a safety issue. It's an adornment issue. Most of the time there is very little there for someone to grab. Just another silly uniform police thing we have to worry about. I'm not in Texas, but I do work small college football. I'm about ready stop worry about anything but the exposed back pads since I feel like I'm the only one in all on NCAA football enforcing it. I understand if early in the game you have something, but when a jersey of a primary player is obvious tucked in over the pad I see no effort to address it by the crew. They either want us to enforce that or they don't, and it doesn't appear to be a big issue for most people.

Offline stormref99

  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-0
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 06:18:11 PM »
A bandana sticking out the back of a helmet isn't a safety issue. It's an adornment issue. Most of the time there is very little there for someone to grab. Just another silly uniform police thing we have to worry about. I'm not in Texas, but I do work small college football. I'm about ready stop worry about anything but the exposed back pads since I feel like I'm the only one in all on NCAA football enforcing it. I understand if early in the game you have something, but when a jersey of a primary player is obvious tucked in over the pad I see no effort to address it by the crew. They either want us to enforce that or they don't, and it doesn't appear to be a big issue for most people.

Disagree that this is NOT a safety issue. You grab it and pull...serious risk for neck injury. Not that long hair isn't either, but that is what it is. And if we let this slide..what else do we start to let ignoring? The rules are there for a reason. My two cents

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • FAN REACTION: +58/-45
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 10:10:22 PM »
The bandana thing is neither ‘adornment’ nor ‘safety.’ It has to do with the NCAA’s desire to avoid any connection with criminal gangs who use bandanas as symbols of identity.
Enoforcement of this rule is so incredibly easy, I can’t offer an explanation for failure to enforce it, other than directive by the cooridinator for that crew, which would be inexplicable.  Simply tucking it under the helmet is so easy, there is no reason to allow it to hang out.  They don’t have to remove it - just tuck it out of sight.
The National Coordinator and the Rules Editor should make a coiridinated effort to re-emphasize enforcement of that rule.

Regarding mouthpieces, that IS a player safety issue, but definitely an individual choice by the players.  If the coaches want their players protected, they need to be the ones to make sure they are all outfitted.  After all, they sign a statement saying they do so, prior to each game. If that rule is overlooked, it is because it is neither an image issue, nor a safety issue for opponents of the player that chooses to forego the mouthpiece.  Now, I grant you, when it is overlooked at the NCAA level, it makes life difficult for guys working HS ball.  But, again, this is a pretty easy rule to enforce, if the will is there (at any level).

2018 will bring back the most difficult uniform rule to enforce - knees covered by pants and knee pads.  The players will always push the envelope on this, because they see the NFL guys wearing what amounts to biker shorts, and they will try to emulate.  Coaches want the most competitive edge they can get, and if uncovered knees offers an edge, they won’t insist on real compliance by their players.  And they’ll make the coordinators’ lives miserable enough that they won’t push the issue either.

The NFL has the ability to fine players for uniform violations, and it used to pretty prevent exposed skin on the legs and torsos, but even they are getting lax about that.  How is the NCAA - without the ability to fine anybody - going to enforce uniform rules when the ‘role models’ are running around in shorts and midriff jerseys?

Regarding jerseys and numbers, that is not something game Officials should have to get involved with, other than to file a report to their superiors, unless the players can’t be identified by their numbers on the field.  Not our problem if press box coaches or media can’t read the numbers.  The governing bodies for the teams are the ones to get involved with that issue.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! 

Robert

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1604
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-26
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2017, 03:15:56 PM »
You have an opinion? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Occasionally, you smart aleck.  But then you knew that.

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1604
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-26
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2017, 03:29:56 PM »
We all have to get on-board with this knee pad thing next year or we just make it more difficult for the next crew.  Coaches are going to ignore it until we start taking care of business.

Offline TXPanhandle

  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-131
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2017, 05:23:15 PM »
We all have to get on-board with this knee pad thing next year or we just make it more difficult for the next crew.  Coaches are going to ignore it until we start taking care of business.

Your statement makes perfect sense but based on how things have been handled up until now it will never happen. Officials taking care of business that is. Officials that enforce these rules are in the minority.

Offline mccormicw

  • *
  • Posts: 258
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-3
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2017, 06:13:08 PM »
The issue is consequences.  Not defending either side but the consequences for calling certain fouls in Texas outweighs the consequences for ignoring those fouls.  No matter how bad an assignment process is that doesn't include direct coach input, I feel that the game is better off than allowing coaches to cherry pick the crews that work their game.  I believe coaches should have input, but that input should not include picking crews.  I know this is a sore point with a bunch of people but allowing coaches to pick exact crews is crazy to the rest of the country.

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • FAN REACTION: +58/-45
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2017, 06:51:37 PM »
...No matter how bad an assignment process is that doesn't include direct coach input, I feel that the game is better off than allowing coaches to cherry pick the crews that work their game.

I may be dense, and may not be understanding what you are saying, but who said a system that removes the competing institutions from selecting officials for game assignments is bad?

Am I missing something?
Robert

Offline mccormicw

  • *
  • Posts: 258
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-3
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2017, 07:04:47 PM »
I think we agree here.  Many people argue that the Texas HS system is good because coaches make their living on these games so they should be able to pick the crews. I disagree with that thought process.  I may have worded it poorly but that is my point
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 07:06:46 PM by mccormicw »

Offline mccormicw

  • *
  • Posts: 258
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-3
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2017, 07:08:42 PM »
Quote from a different topic - "If I was a coach I would want to have say in who officiates my games, and I think we all would if we were the coach.  We all need to remember a coach makes his living on wins and losses.  Granted the coach chose this profession.   We as officials are nothing more than paid volunteers.  At the end of the day to us as officials it is only a game, but to the coach the games are his evaluation. " 

Offline Clear Lake ref

  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2017, 08:56:15 PM »
Coaches in every sport in the world make their living on games and the outcome. None of them pick their officials.

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • FAN REACTION: +58/-45
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2017, 09:00:40 PM »
I didn’t copy the quote you referenced, but please don’t take that quote as gospel by or for anybody.  NFL and NCAA coaches have just a wee bit more at stake at their jobs, but have no direct input on the assignment of officials to their contests.  As it should be.  For NFL, NCAA, and HS alike.
Our mission, one and all, is to simply study, drill, and practice, currently and continually, to officiate every contest at a level that does justice and honor to the game itself, and so high as to remove objection to anyone working any contest.  We must be willing to accept a system that holds us accountable for the quality of our work.  The mechanics of that, for Texas HS officiating, needs to be worked out, but that can be done.
But all of the issues being discussed about bandanas, mouthpieces, knee coverings, back pads, etc., are a manifestation of the “coach select” system, due to the pervasive fear of the “scratch” by coaches, especially those of the higher profile programs.
The current system does little to motivate officials to “do it right.”

Robert

Offline mccormicw

  • *
  • Posts: 258
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-3
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2017, 09:09:24 PM »
I concur completely.  The quote I posted was clearly not from you.  You and I agree.  I simply posted it to show that there is a school of thought that differs from ours. 

Offline cwag

  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-0
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2017, 08:26:42 AM »

The current system does little to motivate officials to “do it right.”

Robert

I think this is the best statement about how things are done in Texas HS football regarding coaches involvement in selecting officials.

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1604
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-26
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 08:17:17 AM »
It has been said a number of times that if the UIL really wants to address the issues of uniform problems, jerseys, knee pads, bandanas, uniform attachments, etc, then they need to go to the coaches with a very strong statement about these issues to help clean them up.  They never do.  I can think of no time the UIL has ever strongly addressed these issues with the coaches directly.  Their out, as I see it, is that they say these are the rules and the officials have to enforce them, then look the other way.  If they are enforced they will back the officials, hopefully.  But, if we do not enforce them, there is no consequence.  I have never heard of an officiating crew being called to the UIL to discuss why they allowed a team to wear illegal jerseys, no knee pads, jerseys with cut off sleeves or tied, spats (old issue), non matching socks, oversized towels, on and on.  Why?  The UIL does not want to get into the middle of that fight.  They leave it up to us to call or not call, knowing quite well the current process means the majority will look the other way.  No crew ever gets called up by the UIL for allowing these "fashion" issues, although some actually deal with safety to a degree.  But, if a crew were to misapply a rule in a game that huge consequences, or said the wrong thing to a coach or player, you bet they would get called up by the UIL, because the coaches expected it and UIL has to show they are large and in charge. 

For officials, that's kind of what it comes down to.  A couple of years ago, my crew essentially gave up on trying to enforce the knee pad garbage.  No matter what we did, there there at least a dozen players on each team with issues.  I cannot be the lone ranger.  If the crews before me and after me are not taking care of it, how in the world can I take care of it one night and not expect the coach to remember my crew?  It is all or nothing with these issues and we must have the backing of the UIL and not allow them to just say the officials have to take care of it, not us.  We will tell every coach before each game next year we will enforce the knee pad issue, and we will.  But then again, I'm in a chapter that does not allow coaches to pick.  It does make a difference.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 09:39:37 AM by TexDoc »

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • FAN REACTION: +58/-45
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Visible bandannas
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 08:40:38 AM »
TexDoc:  Hear! Hear!   pHiNzuP