Author Topic: Enforcement spot?  (Read 967 times)

Offline SideLine

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Enforcement spot?
« on: March 20, 2018, 09:51:18 AM »
10-4-6 play...

B intercepts in the EZ fumbles out to the 4 where recovered by a B player.  During the fumble, foul by B for holding at the 10 yard line. 

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2018, 10:24:40 AM »
B's interception ended the loose ball play, and the effort to advance initiates a running play, for which the basic spot is the spot where that related run ends (fumble) 10-4-4, a touchback (1st & 10 for B@ B20YL).  The spot of B's foul (the B10 YL) is behind the basic spot,  1/2 the distance places the succeeding spot @ B5YL, 1st &10 for B. 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2018, 11:07:38 AM »
Yankee Al nailed it. This is a classic play to illustrate the importance of WHEN in the 4 W's of penalty enforcement. The calling official needs to recognize the time of the foul, not just the foul itself.

IF....

(1) The foul occurred prior to the interception = loose ball, possible DPI, previous spot;

(2) after the pick, but prior to/during the fumble = end of related run, touchback, all-but-one;

(3) after the fumble recovery but before ball became dead = if ball stayed @ B's 4, end of that related run - ball placed @ B's 2;

(4) after ball became dead  = waive off flag, no dead-ball holding.

....NOW , WHAT IF THE HOLDING OCCURRED IN B'S ENDZONE ?????

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2018, 01:17:19 PM »
If the team in possession of the ball commits an accepted live ball foul in their own endzone... I don't believe there's any scenario where that is not a safety (short of a double foul situation).

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2018, 07:58:25 AM »
NCwingman wins  aWaRd....

In 1996 we tweaked 10-5-4's basic spot from the goal line to the 20 yard line for a play which resulted in a touchback. This was prompted by a play where a B player, after intercepting a pass in his end zone, was brought down there by his facemask. You then needed to decline the penalty to get the ball at the 20, as the penalty would only bring it out to the 15. The discussion then evolved around fouls by B after COP. The 20 yard line would still be the basic spot BUT the all-but-one principle would still apply.

A foul by B after COP in it's own end zone = enforcement spot in EZ=safety.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2018, 08:45:23 AM »
In NFHS, when the basic spot is a bean bag in the end zone, you need to remember the force/impetus into the end zone of that run play to properly get your basic spot.

Team A causes the force: Basic spot = 20
Team B causes the force: Basic spot = goal line
Team B causes the force, but momentum applies:  Basic spot = momentum spot.

For the first two, it essentially doesn't matter where the fumble ends up or what the result of the play is.
For the last one, obviously all the criteria for momentum must apply.

Offline SideLine

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 09:16:00 AM »
Is everyone in agreement that the play in the original post the enforcement spot is the 10?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 09:31:54 AM »
Is everyone in agreement that the play in the original post the enforcement spot is the 10?
I'm not everyone, but applying the all-but -one principle would bring the enforcement spot to the spot of the foul = B's 10.

Offline gmgiesey

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2018, 07:13:59 PM »
I believe in the OP, the result of the play is B's ball at their 4 yd line?  If so, we need to remind A's captain/coach that declining the penalty would be their best choice.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Enforcement spot?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2018, 06:55:49 AM »
I believe in the OP, the result of the play is B's ball at their 4 yd line?  If so, we need to remind A's captain/coach that declining the penalty would be their best choice.
Excellent, Gmgiesey  aWaRd !! While the rest of us debated how to enforce the penalty, you gave us a reason not to enforce it.

 ^no to captain/coach/frenzied masses : "It's going to be their ball because they got it with 'clean hands'. Their holding penalty would give them the ball at their five but by declining it, they will have the ball at their four."  yEs: