Author Topic: Where to put new officials  (Read 2277 times)

Offline the clown

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Where to put new officials
« on: February 05, 2018, 08:25:51 PM »
Like most of the country, we are experiencing a huge shortage officials.  This coming year we will have to have first year officials working varsity games to fill out a five man crew.
 Traditionally, we have placed new officials on the flanks, but I know a number of associations put them at Umpire and Back Judge.  I'm a firm believer in starting them somewhere where they are protected from the sideline.  I'd like your opinion...

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 06:47:20 AM »
For varsity, I like the idea of starting them at BJ.  "Count the defense, keep the play clock, don't get beat deep."

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 07:51:23 AM »
Unfortunately, there is no “good” place to put a first year official on a 5 man crew. Give them as much training and all of the support that you can. Help them understand that coaches and fans can be tough to deal with. And remember what some basketball coach said - “The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.”

Having said that, we brought a 2nd year official onto our crew 2 years ago because we had to.  I agree with Bama, but we also considered that the BJ is often the only official in position to make calls on deep passes and is always out there alone (maybe assisted by the LJ) on punts.  We didn't like the idea of U for two reasons - the U controls the pace of the game as much as anyone and, more importantly, an inexperienced guy could get hurt in the middle if he doesn't know what he's doing.  So that left the wings as options.  Downside of HL is that he had to work the chains.   Downside of LJ is that he's on the home team side with (usually) far more fans than the visitor side.  After talking through all of that, we moved our experienced HL to BJ and put the new official at HL.  Another plus for HL is that position is visible on almost every play on Hudl since film is taken from the press box, facing the HL.  This allowed us to review and provide feedback after every game.  It worked out well.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:00:26 AM by FLAHL »

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 10:16:20 AM »
my opinion:
1-while BJ sometimes does not have as much to do, when there is a big call to make (i.e. downfield pass in the open field) he's out there, all alone on an island under the microscope).
2-U - can get away with missing a hold, etc., but U is the Rs right hand man.
3-On the wings (5-man), he has the other wing for dead ball help and (while not their primary keys) R & U for runs in their direction.

I would favor a wing for a new guy.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2018, 10:18:04 AM »
... plus round these parts, new guys will work JV where there is 4-man.

Offline SCHSref

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2018, 11:10:36 AM »
Like most of the country, we are experiencing a huge shortage officials.  This coming year we will have to have first year officials working varsity games to fill out a five man crew.
 Traditionally, we have placed new officials on the flanks, but I know a number of associations put them at Umpire and Back Judge.  I'm a firm believer in starting them somewhere where they are protected from the sideline.  I'd like your opinion...

What part of the country are you in?
If you didn't see it, you can't call it

Offline PAREF

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2018, 12:05:46 PM »
Luckily I work in PA where for the most part we work with 6 officials but in a 5 man where it's tougher, I agree with FLAHL's reasoning with where they put their second year guy. I think to put them in the best position to prosper you need to have a true evaluation of each individual crew and the first year official that is going to be put with them. Know where you can put your experienced officials to help cover the inexperience and also be able to evaluate and provide good feedback to the new official. I've seen some guys come in and look like they've been officiating for years, but I've seen some train wrecks too! Good luck!!

Offline bossman72

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2018, 12:29:44 PM »
FWIW, I put a rookie in at U the other year on our crew figuring he'd stay out of trouble there.  He did, but it also severely messed up our pace of play because he didn't really know what he was doing compared to our old U.

So, it's a tradeoff.  You can expose him to bad calls on the wings or you can hide him at U and screw up your crew's pace on penalty enforcement, ball rotation, etc.

Note: 6 man crew.

Offline Etref

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2018, 04:33:13 PM »
While a new official on the wings can be a hazard with coaches, I would never put a brand new official at back judge. Way too much happens on scrimmage kicks

2nd year official is a different story and depends on the official
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 09:53:18 AM »
We have always started our new guys at linesman. The mundane chain and box duties will involve him on every play. In sub-varsity (all 3 man), his duties as linesman will provide him as a base before he moves to varsity.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 11:21:49 AM »
Four crews in our association have their newest and youngest member at BJ, but each of those situations is different.

We have our two newest and youngest at U and BJ, away from the coaches.  We feel that they will get better and more confident quicker if they can concentrate on what is in front of them without being distracted by what is behind them.








Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 02:43:00 PM »
Four crews in our association have their newest and youngest member at BJ, but each of those situations is different.

We have our two newest and youngest at U and BJ, away from the coaches.  We feel that they will get better and more confident quicker if they can concentrate on what is in front of them without being distracted by what is behind them.

Unfortunately learning how to properly deal with, "being distracted by what is behind them" is something EVERY official is going to need learning to be competent, and confident, in dealing with, regardless of positioning.

Offline Curious

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2018, 03:11:14 PM »
I know most of this discussion is about 5-man; but what about going from 5 to 7-man (which is happening here with more regularity). Traditionally, we've put "newer" officials added in the deep wing positions.  It seems to work best as there is help from the B and other deep wing on "big/controversial" calls.  Thoughts?

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2018, 03:17:24 PM »
I know most of this discussion is about 5-man; but what about going from 5 to 7-man (which is happening here with more regularity). Traditionally, we've put "newer" officials added in the deep wing positions.  It seems to work best as there is help from the B and other deep wing on "big/controversial" calls.  Thoughts?
Agree. 7-man, deep wing.

Online JasonTX

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2018, 10:22:52 PM »
We let them decide where they feel most comfortable. 

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 08:31:48 AM »
When I started, my crew put me at BJ because that's where the need was. I think that a new guy can succeed at any position (except WH) with support and help from his crew if he/she gets in the book, asks questions, and puts forth the effort.

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 03:35:27 PM »
I think that a new guy can succeed at any position (except WH) with support and help from his crew if he/she gets in the book, asks questions, and puts forth the effort.
aWaRd   :thumbup

Offline Rich

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 08:47:50 PM »
I am an experienced R.  If I have someone fairly new (or a sub), I want that person at U.  I'll help cover for the U and I want experienced people dealing with the coaches.

Offline KWH

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 02:48:22 AM »
...I think that a new guy can succeed at any position (except WH) with support and help from his crew if he/she gets in the book, asks questions, and puts forth the effort.
I am in support of that logic!  FlAg1  yEs:

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 08:29:56 AM »
As earlier mentioned, we put our new guys at HL. Prior to their on-field we as them (with the visiting coaches permission) to travel up and down the field with the chain crew and shadow the HL. In down time the HL will explain and answer questions  :o to the newie. Seem to work.

Offline jason

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2018, 09:24:31 AM »
I am an experienced R.  If I have someone fairly new (or a sub), I want that person at U.  I'll help cover for the U and I want experienced people dealing with the coaches.

I agree with Rich. The R can not only cover for most big holding calls, but he can also tell the U explicitly what to do (i.e. "Start at the 35 and mark it off to the 40 on the right hash.") The wings are also able to get exterior holds. Furthermore, the wings can ensure the U doesn't mark any penalties off incorrectly.

At that point, the U becomes a ball spotter who just needs to stay safe and hustle.


Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2018, 09:36:22 AM »
Although staying safe and hustle are both important, what is your Umpire learning to actually do?

Offline BIG UMP

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2018, 01:17:41 PM »
New officials primarily work Middle school and JV games.  When they work a varsity game it is primarily at LJ since we have a clock operator in their hip pocket.  He gives as much assistance as he can, along with pep talks after a butt chewing.
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Offline jason

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 02:01:47 PM »
Although staying safe and hustle are both important, what is your Umpire learning to actually do?

Hopefully he's learning to be an umpire. Foul selection. Ball placement. Game management. If he throws a flag and the R takes him off or doubles up on it, he knows whether it's a quality foul. If the ball is placed incorrectly, he's probably learning penalty enforcement. And game management will come with experience.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Where to put new officials
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »
I know most of this discussion is about 5-man; but what about going from 5 to 7-man (which is happening here with more regularity). Traditionally, we've put "newer" officials added in the deep wing positions.  It seems to work best as there is help from the B and other deep wing on "big/controversial" calls.  Thoughts?

That's where we put our newest officials in 7 man crews, generally.  They have some help both from the B and the short wing on their side, and they don't have to think as much pre-snap to find their key. 

We also have a good number of 7-man games weekly. Our past three VPs of recruiting (sering two years each) have done absolutely phenomenal jobs, and we can provide all of our "in town" games a 7 man crew weekly.  We go 5 man crews out in the country in the regular season.