Author Topic: Rule changes are here  (Read 4221 times)

Offline SouthGARef

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Rule changes are here
« on: February 08, 2018, 09:15:19 AM »
https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/football-rules-changes-2018/

Only one real meaningful change. Allowing R to tack on fouls by K during kick plays. Good change.

Online FLAHL

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 12:48:19 PM »
Sorry to see that there are no changes to speed up the game.  On a positive note, looks like I might get by without updating my Redding Study Guide this year. 

Offline stevegarbs

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 02:13:37 PM »
Whole lotta nuthin' going on here. Nice to get a break for a year, I guess.  8]

Offline Curious

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 03:48:59 PM »
I do like the "failure to wear" penalty to player removal; and ESPECIALLY the "tack-on" provision for K's fouls during free kicks!!!! Ralph, did you have something to do with the latter?

Offline KWH

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 06:08:55 PM »
Sorry to see that there are no changes to speed up the game.  On a positive note, looks like I might get by without updating my Redding Study Guide this year.

Is there a some reason or some need to speed up the NFHS game?

Offline Rich

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 08:45:38 PM »
Because there are way too many games pushing 3 hours.  At the HS level, that's ridiculous.

Offline KWH

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 02:44:18 AM »
Because there are way too many games pushing 3 hours.  At the HS level, that's ridiculous.

Rich - The numbers provided by the NFHS do not to support your claim:

2017 NFHS Football Play-off Game Statistics Summary
Total (not avg) length of all games reported from kickoff to final horn.
Number of games reported is italicized and in [Brackets]
2007 - 2:20 [567]
2008 - 2:19 [675]
2009 - 2:19 [783]
2010 - 2:15 [737]
2011 - 2:18 [819]
2012 - 2:29 [765]
2013 - 2:19 [682]
2014 - 2:20 [642]
2015 - 2:16 [602]
2016 - 2:17 [415]
2017 - 2:15 [506]
26 States participated in 2017 survey: Alabama, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii,
Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana; Nebraska, Oklahoma,
Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virgina, Wisconsin, and Wyoming

Offline refjeff

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 07:14:50 AM »
Rich - The numbers provided by the NFHS do not to support your claim:

2017 NFHS Football Play-off Game Statistics Summary
Total (not avg) length of all games reported from kickoff to final horn.
Number of games reported is italicized and in [Brackets]
2007 - 2:20 [567]
2008 - 2:19 [675]
2009 - 2:19 [783]
2010 - 2:15 [737]
2011 - 2:18 [819]
2012 - 2:29 [765]
2013 - 2:19 [682]
2014 - 2:20 [642]
2015 - 2:16 [602]
2016 - 2:17 [415]
2017 - 2:15 [506]
26 States participated in 2017 survey: Alabama, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii,
Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana; Nebraska, Oklahoma,
Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virgina, Wisconsin, and Wyoming

I don't understand.  In 2017 how can the total length of 506 games be 2 hours and 15 minutes? 

I don't even believe that out of 506 games the longest was 2:15.

Online bama_stripes

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 07:19:09 AM »
These are for playoff games only?  If so, I can see why they are lower than the actual average of all varsity games:  Higher quality of play = fewer penalties, fewer incomplete passes, fewer scores, etc.
(FWIW, the average time of state championship games here this season was 2:39.)

I've had very few games in the past 8 years or so that were even close to 2:15 total time.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 08:19:19 AM »
I do like the "failure to wear" penalty to player removal; and ESPECIALLY the "tack-on" provision for K's fouls during free kicks!!!! Ralph, did you have something to do with the latter?
The tack-on rule was proposed by the author of the rule outlawing the Oregonian Flea Flicker several years ago. I supported it and it also includes scrimmage kicks. A proposed play:

    Ball @ K's 30, 4th & 10....

(1) Hans, usually a powerful punter, steps into a 'tatter rut as he kicks a high pop-up that travels to K's 40;
(2) while ball is bouncing around, K's big ole' Bubba waddles down to see  what he is missing;
(3) Bubba spies R's little Sugerfoot watching the bouncing ball;
(4) Bubba lights up lil' Sugerfoot while the ball is still bouncing;
(5) ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag :thumbup (5-man crew);
(6) Bubba is excused from further participation;

(7a) YESTERDAY - R would probably decline foul that would cause K to re-kick and take the field position;
(7b) TOMMORROW - R would accept the penalty enforced from the end of the kick.

Some good things come out of the Northwest  tiphat: tiphat:
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:22:22 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 08:35:34 AM »
Is there a some reason or some need to speed up the NFHS game?
it's been discussed ad nauseam.
But in short, as another said: 3-hour HS game is crazy, but sadly the norm for some parts of the country.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 08:38:17 AM »
i must say, the least changes i've seen in a while

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2018, 09:02:10 AM »
i must say, the least changes i've seen in a while
Two years ago we only had one real change when we hulled legal clipping in FBZ. Last year we passed 11. This year there were 47 proposals. I believe Vegas oddsmakers would consider predicting this as "off the table"  :)

Offline jason

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2018, 09:18:57 AM »
Rich - The numbers provided by the NFHS do not to support your claim:

2017 NFHS Football Play-off Game Statistics Summary
Total (not avg) length of all games reported from kickoff to final horn.
Number of games reported is italicized and in [Brackets]
2007 - 2:20 [567]
2008 - 2:19 [675]
2009 - 2:19 [783]
2010 - 2:15 [737]
2011 - 2:18 [819]
2012 - 2:29 [765]
2013 - 2:19 [682]
2014 - 2:20 [642]
2015 - 2:16 [602]
2016 - 2:17 [415]
2017 - 2:15 [506]
26 States participated in 2017 survey: Alabama, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii,
Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana; Nebraska, Oklahoma,
Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virgina, Wisconsin, and Wyoming

Those numbers are hard to believe. When someone around here finishes before 9:30, it's uncommon enough that the word spreads. The crew that gets that clean game lets everyone else know about it.

With the proliferation of spread offenses, it's rare to get done with a game before at least 9:30.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 09:39:45 AM »
Where I am, Friday night games generally start at 7:30. Reaction to game length falls into three categories:

1) Off the field by 10. Pretty standard. 2:30 game time.

2) In the car driving home by 10. Very short. Game Time was pushing 2:00. Not common, but it happens. Usually all running teams or blowouts with running clocks.

3) Getting off the field 10:30 or later, very long game. 3:00+. Very unusual and worth complaining about to every other crew you work with for the rest of the year -- which offers confirmation bias about all these really long games.

Overall, I don't feel that a significant percentage of games push 3:00 to the extent that we need rule changes to fix it. Most of the time it's a combination of a ton of fouls AND the crew lollygagging a bit in the enforcement of the penalties. We as officials could probably speed up our dead ball mechanics to shorten total game time before we worry about making rule changes.

Oregonian Flea Flicker

I have to say that I have no idea what this play is, until you explain it and it will be really obvious.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 11:13:11 AM »
There was once a rumor of a creative coach living in our Great Northwest. He was mulling the potential play.....

(1) He would send his twin receivers, Zeke and Zeb toward the end zone;
(2) Zeke would run beyond the end line, Zeb would pull up in the end zone;
(3) Lefty, the QB, would throw the ball over Zeb's head;
(4) Zeke would leap from OOB and bat the ball back to Zeb =
 ^good ^good ^good ^good ^good (5-man crew)

A member of Refstripes learned from confidential street sources of said play. The addition of 9-6-2b turned the results into =
 ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag (5-man crew)

One can read the drama of this play in 9.6.2B , pg 85 (2013 casebook)


Offline bossman72

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 11:22:20 AM »
Penalty enforcement efficiency and not wasting time between try and kickoff can shave 10-15 min off of your game time.  Good RFP pace by R helps too.

Offline KWH

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2018, 11:43:26 AM »
Penalty enforcement efficiency and not wasting time between try and kickoff can shave 10-15 min off of your game time.  Good RFP pace by R helps too.


And, add to that, blowing the RFP within Three to Five Seconds of the Umpire spotting the ball***.  This crap of waiting for the chains, or the down box, or the Quarterback, or the Prom Queens Step-Mom to pick her seat are old school. Some will say, "Oh you have to wait for the down box!" No, Actually you don't! In the one in a million shot that the ball is snapped before the down box gets there, the H simply drops his bean bag where the box is to set up. Been doing it that way for many years and have yet to have the H drop his bean bag.  I do strongly suggest White hats make sure all other officials are ready before the Ready for play.
The big push to add the 40 second clock is simply due to all the lolly gag-gin' that many High School R's do. Restated there is nothing wrong with the current 25 second clock, if R's would get on the bandwagon!

Ralph and I have had many a discussion on the 40 second clock! Together, after many late hours of study,  we garnered the following conclusion:   :puke: 

*** 2006 and 2017 NFHS FOOTBALL Officials Manual, Page 18, Section I Referee-A-4
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 06:08:40 PM by KWH »

Offline SouthGARef

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 02:33:37 PM »
The big push to add the 40 second clock is simply due to all the lolly gag-gin' that many High School R's do. Restated there is nothing wrong with the current 25 second clock, if R's would get on the bandwagon!

Ralph and I have had many a discussion on the 40 second clock! Together, after many late hours of study,  we garnered the following conclusion:   :puke: 

*** 2006 and 2017 NFHS FOOTBALL Officials Manual, Page 18, Section I Referee-A-4

Agreed in full.

I think we've made some progress in Georgia on this. Been a point of emphasis in training for the last few years. Still have some guys that are slow because they've been slow since forever, but the message has largely gotten across.

The 40 second clock just doesn't work for the high school game. Too many variables, many of which Ralph went into earlier this week. The 25 second play is better suited for our game, the 40 second play clock is better suited for the NFL and NCAA. Nothing wrong with that.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 03:42:56 PM »

And, add to that, blowing the RFP within Three to Five Seconds of the Umpire spotting the ball***.  This crap of waiting for the chains, or the down box, or the Quarterback, or the Prom Queens Step-Mom to pick here seat are old school. Some will say, "Oh you have to wait for the down box!" No, Actually you don't! In the one in a million shot that the ball is snapped before the down box gets there, the H simply drops his bean bag where the box is to set up. Been doing it that way for many years and have yet to have the H drop his bean bag.  I do strongly suggest White hats make sure all other officials are ready before the Ready for play.
The big push to add the 40 second clock is simply due to all the lolly gag-gin' that many High School R's do. Restated there is nothing wrong with the current 25 second clock, if R's would get on the bandwagon!

Ralph and I have had many a discussion on the 40 second clock! Together, after many late hours of study,  we garnered the following conclusion:   :puke: 

*** 2006 and 2017 NFHS FOOTBALL Officials Manual, Page 18, Section I Referee-A-4

While we're on the subject, I'd like to see the NFHS manual let us use prelim signals on the way in to the referee.  This will also help us with efficiency in penalty enforcement.

Offline Magician

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2018, 04:40:23 PM »
Agreed in full.

I think we've made some progress in Georgia on this. Been a point of emphasis in training for the last few years. Still have some guys that are slow because they've been slow since forever, but the message has largely gotten across.

The 40 second clock just doesn't work for the high school game. Too many variables, many of which Ralph went into earlier this week. The 25 second play is better suited for our game, the 40 second play clock is better suited for the NFL and NCAA. Nothing wrong with that.

Except the 3 states who have been experimenting with it the past 2 years have glowing things to say about it. The coaches loves the consistency and now hate when they have to travel to other states and play under the 25-second clock rules. It works very well. I understand the arguments some have that the current process isn't broken. But once you use the 40-second clock you will realize it is better.

The experiment states represented schools with and without play clocks so both have been addressed. You don't need to add visible play clocks if you don't have them.

Offline Magician

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2018, 04:52:38 PM »
Those numbers are hard to believe. When someone around here finishes before 9:30, it's uncommon enough that the word spreads. The crew that gets that clean game lets everyone else know about it.

With the proliferation of spread offenses, it's rare to get done with a game before at least 9:30.

Our average game time was 2:20-2:25. Half our games were 2:00-2:15. We had a 2:40 and a 2:48 so our average ended up being 2:21. This has been our range for the past few years that we tracked it. I don't believe the 40-second play clock impacted that significantly although the IHSAA has data showing the extremes of the range was tightened.

Offline Curious

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 01:20:23 PM »
Here in Michigan, we are officially "experimenting" with the 40 second clock (albeit with no actual field clock).  Sounds simple enough; but as pointed out earlier, there are other "complicating issues" which, INHO can play havoc at the HS level. So here are some questions I have.  How have these impacted (or not) games where the 40 second clock is being used?

 With the play clock running, and there is:
1.   a late substitution by A/K, is B/R being given an opportunity to “match up”; and,
2.   if so, should B/R be penalized if they are slow substituting (in or out); or
3.   if so, and if A’s late substitution(s) is/are the reason(s) for the play clock to expire, should A/K be penalized (for 1-3, see NCAA 3-5-2e)
4.   if so, who will be responsible for making A/K hold the snap

Is the 40 second clock being used during sub-varsity contests?

Does the play clock continue to run (while the game clock is stopped by rule) during the setting of chains following a 1st down by A – not caused by B’s foul?

Following an “Administrative Delay”-  which is the only reason the game clock was stopped, should the R blow the whistle signifying the start of the game AND play clocks?

Offline Magician

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 03:18:42 PM »
Here in Michigan, we are officially "experimenting" with the 40 second clock (albeit with no actual field clock).  Sounds simple enough; but as pointed out earlier, there are other "complicating issues" which, INHO can play havoc at the HS level. So here are some questions I have.  How have these impacted (or not) games where the 40 second clock is being used?

 With the play clock running, and there is:
1.   a late substitution by A/K, is B/R being given an opportunity to “match up”; and,
2.   if so, should B/R be penalized if they are slow substituting (in or out); or
3.   if so, and if A’s late substitution(s) is/are the reason(s) for the play clock to expire, should A/K be penalized (for 1-3, see NCAA 3-5-2e)
4.   if so, who will be responsible for making A/K hold the snap

Is the 40 second clock being used during sub-varsity contests?

Does the play clock continue to run (while the game clock is stopped by rule) during the setting of chains following a 1st down by A – not caused by B’s foul?

Following an “Administrative Delay”-  which is the only reason the game clock was stopped, should the R blow the whistle signifying the start of the game AND play clocks?


The substitution question applies whether you are using a 40/25 clock or a regular 25-second clock. What about the 40/25 clock do you think makes this different? Under current HS rules there is no allowance for matching up. Yes the play clock starts and runs while the chains are moving. Why wouldn't it? It doesn't take that long for the chains to move even if they are sow. If you are going to start both the game and play clock after an administrative delay (i.e. penalty enforcement, injury time out), then you would definitely blow your whistle. With the 40-second clock, when you start the game clock after a first down you usually only wind the game clock with no whistle. But there is nothing with using a quick whistle in that case. I know we've gone back and forth on that in NCAA, and I'm not sure there is still a consistent answer today.

How was your experience with the 40-second clock last year? Was it the first year of your experiment?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Rule changes are here
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 08:27:24 AM »
Penalty enforcement efficiency and not wasting time between try and kickoff can shave 10-15 min off of your game time.  Good RFP pace by R helps too.
Fully agreed....
 (1) If the penalty choice is obvious, just move on. There is no need for a long winded discussion.
 (2) I timed dead ball time back in 1997 after big complaint on new snap after COP rule. Found that average of 4:30 between TD and ensuing KO. A lot of wasted time spent that could be shaved.
 (3) A POE in the Officials Manual will stress developing good RFP pace. I will stress to our guys that applying the POE is much better than having to deal with adjusting to the 40 second clock.

In Maine, Friday night lights begin at 7:00 and always end by 9:00-9:30.

IMHO, larger scores + more passing = longer games

I also do baseball. Games may last from 1:30 - 3:00 hours. A base umpire in April usually gets much colder than a back judge in November.

Time for some clam-broth coca.    eAt&