Author Topic: Hardest rules to learn  (Read 750 times)

Offline ncwingman

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Hardest rules to learn
« on: April 26, 2018, 09:23:23 AM »
In trying to think about clinic topics, I had an idea for discussion that I'd like some specific examples if you're willing to participate. Essentially stated, what rule did you have the most difficulty learning?

This can have several aspects as well, such as:

What rule was the most difficult to parse out of the rule book? We all know there are several rules that are written in such legalese that they are almost gibberish.

What rule was the most difficult to remember on the field? I'd prefer these to be "common" rules, and not just situation plays. Personally, for me the difference between illegal motion and illegal shift and which signal is which gave me fits when I first started (I think I've gotten it all sorted out by now). Other examples would be rules that have conditional enforcements -- behind or beyond the LOS or before/after a change of possession, etc. -- or rules that are markedly different than NCAA/NFL rules (especially for new officials that are coming from an As Seen On TV background).

What is the most difficult to get conceptually? You see an action on the field and you think "That's perfectly legal" but then the rule book later tells you that was actually a foul, or vice versa.

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 03:39:36 PM »
To answer your first question... 10-4-6 and 10-4-7!

Trying to understand those as written just makes my brain explode...

Offline js in sc

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 04:09:44 PM »
The hardest one to remember is 3-4-7. cRaZy

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 09:06:54 AM »
Perhaps the rule causing the most consternation and confusion is 2-24-2.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 09:49:46 AM »
8-5-1 and 8-5-2 (Force and Momentum) are both worthy of in-depth review because an incorrect ruling can have a big impact on the game.

"Never argue with stupid people.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 09:53:33 AM »
IMHO, the complexity of Rule 10 is by far the hardest to grasp. My latest screw-up occurred last year. Here's your TGIF quiz........

(1) K, 3rd & 15 @ K's 10;

(2) K tries a quick-kick;

(3) K's punt is blocked and bounces back into their EZ;

(4) k's kicker kicks the bouncing ball from the EZ;

(5) bouncing ball bounces OOB @ K's 8.

(6) I made the call of  ^flag illegal kick.

.......what are the options  ??? ??? ??? ?

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 10:01:05 AM »
IMHO, the complexity of Rule 10 is by far the hardest to grasp. My latest screw-up occurred last year. Here's your TGIF quiz........

(1) K, 3rd & 15 @ K's 10;

(2) K tries a quick-kick;

(3) K's punt is blocked and bounces back into their EZ;

(4) k's kicker kicks the bouncing ball from the EZ;

(5) bouncing ball bounces OOB @ K's 8.

(6) I made the call of  ^flag illegal kick.

.......what are the options  ??? ??? ??? ?

K illegally kicked a legal scrimmage out of bounds. R can decline the foul and take the ball 1/10 at the K-8.

The enforcement of the foul would be a two-point safety awarded to R. K would free kick from their 20 yard line.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 10:30:54 AM »
K illegally kicked a legal scrimmage out of bounds. R can decline the foul and take the ball 1/10 at the K-8.

The enforcement of the foul would be a two-point safety awarded to R. K would free kick from their 20 yard line.

ChicagoZebra should have been with me in Houlton, Maine and we would have gotten it right aWaRd.

I saw to IK bounce OOB and thought ::)...well, they would still have the ball and 4th down; failing to remember our rule change that no longer treated an IK as a fumble -IT WAS TREATED AS A KICK & A KICK OOB = NEW SERIES FOR R. R was happy with the safety, but coulda' had the ball first and goal. I realized my screw-up about 2 plays after the free-kick. I kept that secret until our "post-game review" .... I picked up the tab... eAt& eAt& eAt& eAt& pi1eOn (5-man crew)   
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 10:33:53 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline Magician

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 09:14:06 PM »
In general the hardest rules to remember are those that don't happen very often on the field. When I've had issues applying a rule on the field it's usually because it never happened before, but once it happened and I either confirmed I got it right or learned from my mistake it was much easier to remember and apply. In my first year of varsity I had my first IW on a fumble where I thought it was recovered in the end zone for a TD. It was still loose. We also had an illegal shift prior to the snap. I had no idea how to adjudicate it. We had a foul by A and a loose ball during a running play when the whistle blew. I now know how to handle that situation.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 09:26:00 AM »
When I was first studying the rules I remember PSK and Force didn't make any sense to me until someone walked me through it several times.

Offline KWH

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 01:11:10 PM »
Perhaps the rule causing the most consternation and confusion is 2-24-2.

Try this:
A kick is a kick and a kick SHALL ALWAYS REMAIN a kick until the kick ends by rule!

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 01:51:56 PM »
Try this:
A kick is a kick and a kick SHALL ALWAYS REMAIN a kick until the kick ends by rule!

I didn't suggest 2-24-2 wasn't stated clearly, should be simple to understand and remember. I suggested it may be, "Perhaps the rule causing the most consternation and confusion is 2-24-2", and stand by that assessment.

Offline stevegarbs

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 12:51:13 PM »
For me it is usually the plays with change(s) of possession and foul(s). Rarities and taxing to figure out by yourself, my experience is that they are hard for everyone so additional input often is not as much help as you would hope!  ??? ::)

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2018, 07:25:14 AM »
 ???   ???   ???   ???   ???   ??? (5-man crew)

FIVE HEADS ARE ALWAYS BETTER THAN ONE, PULL YOUR CREW TOGATHER AND GET IT RIGHT.....

 ^talk ^talk yEs: (same 5-man crew after discussion :))

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2018, 09:30:12 AM »
???   ???   ???   ???   ???   ??? (5-man crew)

FIVE HEADS ARE ALWAYS BETTER THAN ONE, PULL YOUR CREW TOGATHER AND GET IT RIGHT.....

 ^talk ^talk yEs: (same 5-man crew after discussion :))

Another important rule to learn -- just because you're the new guy doesn't mean you can't speak up and the old guy isn't always right.

Offline KWH

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2018, 01:26:20 PM »
Another important rule to learn -- just because you're the new guy doesn't mean you can't speak up and the old guy isn't always right.

You are right on the mark ncwingman and I can only add.
More often than not, New Guys tend to have their head in the Books on a regular basis,
some (not all) old guys tend to think they don't need to review the book much.
It is because of them (sometimes hard headed old guys) that the New guys can and need to step up if they think something is being done incorrectly.

Example - Ineligible Receiver downfield during a legal forward pass. The current NFHS penalty is a 5-yard penalty. But,

From 1985 to 1987 the penalty was 5 yards and loss of down
From 1970 to 1984 the penalty was 15 yards
From 1968 to 1969 the act was considered OPI and the penalty was 15 and loss of down.

This is just one example, but, you can see how a Wiley seasoned veteran could possibly get confused, have a senior moment, etc and could use a Newbie to save the day!!!

One thing to remember, most old guys appreciate getting it right on the field. It does not do a whole lotta good to point out the error in the bar after the game!

Source: NFHS Handbook

Offline Bob M.

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 09:44:16 PM »
REPLY: One of the rules that I always need to think about is simultaneous possession of a kick near K's goal line: Punt is blocked into K's EZ where it is jointly recovered by K and R (TD or safety?). K's punt is blocked and is jointly recovered by K and R at K's 2 yd line. (award to K or R)?
Bob M.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 07:23:34 AM »
REPLY: One of the rules that I always need to think about is simultaneous possession of a kick near K's goal line: Punt is blocked into K's EZ where it is jointly recovered by K and R (TD or safety?). K's punt is blocked and is jointly recovered by K and R at K's 2 yd line. (award to K or R)?
Strike up the band....let the cheerleaders prance...let the prom queen swoon....

   R'S BIG OLE' BUBBA JUST SCORED A TOUCHDOWN...

 ^good ^good ^good ^good ^good (5-man crew)

  ...but not necessarily a date with the prom queen  tR:oLl

Offline KWH

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 04:07:14 PM »
REPLY: One of the rules that I always need to think about is simultaneous possession of a kick near K's goal line: Punt is blocked into K's EZ where it is jointly recovered by K and R (TD or safety?). K's punt is blocked and is jointly recovered by K and R at K's 2 yd line. (award to K or R)?

I'm with Ralph (Except I don't understand how a Prom Queen can Swoon?)
Joint Possession ball is awarded to R -
For Joint possession of a Scrimmage kick see: 6-2-7 (Ball is awarded to R)
For joint possession of a Free Kick see: 6-1-6  (Ball is awarded to R)
For joint possession of a forward pass see: 7-5-4 (Ball is awarded to A)
For joint possession of a fumble (or backward pass)  see: 7-4-3c (Ball is awarded to the fumbling (or backward passing) team)
If the Prom Queen does swoon - tell here mother!

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Hardest rules to learn
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 04:10:18 PM »
In the simultaneous recovery situation, R would get a touchdown if an R player recovered the ball in the K endzone. If the punt is recovered at the K2, the ensuing situation will be R 1/G at the K2 (B 1/G at the A2, using NCAA (universal) nomenclature)).