Author Topic: Would you grant this time out?  (Read 773 times)

Offline FLAHL

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Would you grant this time out?
« on: June 28, 2018, 12:10:05 PM »
A is ahead 20-10
30 seconds left in the 4th quarter, and the clock is running
A has the ball 2nd and 10 on the B 20 yard line
B has two time outs remaining
B's coach calls for a TO

Curious to hear your thoughts on whether to award this time out or let the clock run out and the game end.  Thanks.

Offline Stinterp

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 12:59:44 PM »
If B has 2 timeouts remaining,  grant the TO.  It is not our job to coach. We do not know why he is calling TO. Maybe he wants to get in some reserves, maybe he wants to work on things for next game, maybe he wants to be a sore loser, his problem, not ours.
He is allowed 3 timeouts a half, he can use all 3 as he wants.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 04:07:04 PM by Stinterp »

Offline edtude

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2018, 01:15:10 PM »
If B has 2 timeouts remaining,  grant the TO.  It is not our job to coach. We do not know why he is calling TO. Maybe he wants to get in some reserves, maybe he wants to work on things for next game.
He is allowed 3 timeouts a half, he can use all 3 as he wants.

Agreed. I often wonder what is running through coaches minds at the end of the game, but if I knew I probably would be frightened.

Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2018, 01:44:58 PM »
Why would anyone not grant the timeout. Refusing to grant the TO because you think itís unnecessary is way out of our purview. Is it pointless? Probably. Are the Team A fans going to boo? Almost definitely. But itís his timeout. Let him take it.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2018, 02:45:08 PM »
given the scenario, I dont see why not grant one albeit to call one makes no apparent sense.
However, maybe LJ could possibly not hear the B coach so well from that distance and will need to confirm/verify what the coach is requesting. - which takes a few extra sceonds. :)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 01:31:44 PM by TampaSteve »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2018, 04:27:26 PM »
Generally agree with the above sentiments, however, the circumstances of this particular game. the temperature of both teams and their pattern of behavior and attitude leading up to this situation are important factors worthy of serious consideration.  No two football games, ever played, are exactly alike.

Any suspicion of preempting the opportunity, or probability of creating violence or unnecessary serious problematic behavior, by either team, might persuade me to very carefully terminate the contest.  Preventing fire is a far more desirable solution than allowing one to start,  no matter how good your efforts at putting it out, after it started. NFHS 1-1-6 is an available tool designed specifically for exceptional situations.

Of course their may be consequences, you should be aware of and willing to accept.   
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 04:29:53 PM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline UTchad

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2018, 10:48:22 AM »
I work as HL and if my coach wanted this timeout I would grant but then walk over to him and ask what his plan is for the second timeout. In my experience USUALLY the coach is just trying to get playing time for some bench players. I am sure he realizes that the game is over. Not my place as an official to offer advice or make suggestions.

Another topic that is usually debated out our meetings is to turn to the coach and 'remind' him that he has two timeouts left. Basically asking him to call a timeout. I like to live by the adage let the coach coach.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2018, 11:21:31 AM »
Another topic that is usually debated out our meetings is to turn to the coach and 'remind' him that he has two timeouts left. Basically asking him to call a timeout. I like to live by the adage let the coach coach.

Just remind out of the blue at the end of the game? That seems odd.

I agree that an unprompted reminder when they call a TO is fine -- they call one, and I'll reply "Coach, you got two left", but I won't say that out of context or if they don't ask.

Offline edtude

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2018, 02:04:00 PM »
Just remind out of the blue at the end of the game? That seems odd.

I agree that an unprompted reminder when they call a TO is fine -- they call one, and I'll reply "Coach, you got two left", but I won't say that out of context or if they don't ask.

We will typically let the coaches know how many time outs they have left in games that are still competitive so that everyone on the field is on the same page. In a game such at the one described in the original post I would be using my Jedi mind trick to speed up the clock.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2018, 07:54:55 PM »
I have seen this before.  Team A is intent on taking a knee and then B calls timeout.  A's coach is now upset and calls a pass play and it gets intercepted.   B (now A) runs a play and scores.  It comes down to the onside kick and the receiving team recovers.  Apparently the strategy with the timeout was to hope they would be mad and run a play.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 11:05:05 AM by JasonTX »

Offline sczeebra

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2018, 06:30:10 AM »
Had this situation last year; The home team is leading by 3 and time is winding down in the 4th. If they win by more than 7 they will secure a higher seeding in the playoffs that are to begin the week after. Likewise for the visiting team if they can walk away losing by no more than 7 their playoff seeding improves. The home team had the ball driving and calling TO's and score with 40 secs left to go up by 10. They kick to the visiting team and they need 3 for a higher seed. CRAZY!!!

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2018, 01:30:00 PM »
We will typically let the coaches know how many time outs they have left in games that are still competitive so that everyone on the field is on the same page. In a game such at the one described in the original post I would be using my Jedi mind trick to speed up the clock.
It certainly doesnt hurt to remind at heated moment; conversely, the coach is a grown professional responsible for his actions.
Personslly, when he calls one (or comes out of one), "coach this is your first, you have 2 more." - and he's received his reminder

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2018, 10:15:32 AM »

A is ahead 20-10
30 seconds left in the 4th quarter, and the clock is running
A has the ball 2nd and 10 on the B 20 yard line
B has two time outs remaining
B's coach calls for a TO

There's a bit more to the story here.  B led 10-0 at halftime before A scored 20 unanswered points in the 2nd half.  The game got pretty chippy in the 4th quarter and we were reminding both teams to stop talking, get back to your huddle, don't do anything stupid, etc.  In fact, A had the ball on the B 20 as a result of a dead ball personal foul (non-ejection) by B two plays earlier.  We did not award the TO, and after the RFP at under 25 seconds, the U stood over the ball and we let time expire.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2018, 12:32:35 PM »
There's a bit more to the story here.  B led 10-0 at halftime before A scored 20 unanswered points in the 2nd half.  The game got pretty chippy in the 4th quarter and we were reminding both teams to stop talking, get back to your huddle, don't do anything stupid, etc.  In fact, A had the ball on the B 20 as a result of a dead ball personal foul (non-ejection) by B two plays earlier.  We did not award the TO, and after the RFP at under 25 seconds, the U stood over the ball and we let time expire.
...and that's the rest of the story.....
certainly had to be there, but with this add'l information I'm leaning towards a 'no' TO..

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2018, 04:37:50 PM »
In NFHS, if there was a rule to support not granting the timeout, it would have to be a combination of 3-4-6 (The referee can order the clock to start or stop if the team is illegally conserving or consuming time) and Rule 9-9-5 (Neither team shall commit an act, which in the opinion of the referee, tends to make a travesty of the game). If the referee rules that a team calling timeouts in a game that it has no chance to win makes a travesty of the game, he can declare that the timeouts are illegally conserving time, and order the clock to start on the ready-for-play signal, and the time of the game will run out.


Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2018, 09:42:21 AM »
In NFHS, if there was a rule to support not granting the timeout, .......

Actually, there has long been such a rule, providing the EXACT capability you're suggesting.  Thankfully, and appropriately, it's rarely officially invoked, usually chosen instead to be simply, and directly applied when deemed necessary.  NFHS 1-1-6 is both intentionally ambiguous and incontrovertible (much like the "big stick" always best kept out of sight) intended to be utilized in only the rarest of circumstances, triggered EXCLUSIVELY by the Referee.

It's more often subsequently referenced and explained, than initially declared and discussed and does NOT require, or allow for, immediate debate.  The infrequency of it's usage underscores the seriousness, and finality, of it's application.  It is clearly intended and designed  to address dealing with unique/unanticipated circumstances and/or prevent potentially dangerous situations from developing.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:53:00 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Would you grant this time out?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 12:48:33 PM »
What he said. ^^^
 :bOW