Author Topic: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt  (Read 304 times)

Offline Derek Teigen

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Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« on: January 14, 2019, 11:20:11 AM »
Reading case book 5.1.3 page 42.  It says that if R blocks a field goal kick any recovery by k beyond or behind the neutral zone results in a first down for k.

My understanding is this is different than punts in that a k recovery of a blocked punt must be recovered beyond the line to gain OR if recovered behind the neutral zone advanced beyond the line to gain.

If my understanding is correct why  the difference I wonder?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 11:29:24 AM by Derek Teigen »

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 11:32:57 AM »
I’m also thinking about a possible play for K where they intentionally kick the ball into the line hoping to recover it so they can start a new series of downs.  Has anyone thought of this or seen this?  Does R actually have to touch the ball or what if r blocks a player of k into the hall?  Does it matter for this rule to be enforced? 

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 11:35:42 AM »
I might be looking at the wrong situation, but does it not also say that B muffed the ball beyond the neutral zone?

If B touches a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, then whoever is in possession of the ball at the end of down is awarded a first down at the dead ball spot (assuming no penalties).

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 11:47:59 AM »
Yes youíre right I missed that part. Thatís interesting thatís itís a muff.  In the saints eagles game there was a fumble and B muffed it (did not have possession).  A recovered but  it was not a First down because there was no change of possession.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 12:52:37 PM »
Remember that field goal attempts and punts are very similar in that both are scrimmage kicks. Rules and applications are basically the same. The only difference is that a field goal can score points.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 01:30:12 PM »
Yes youíre right I missed that part. Thatís interesting thatís itís a muff.  In the saints eagles game there was a fumble and B muffed it (did not have possession).  A recovered but  it was not a First down because there was no change of possession.

In order for the first down for either team to come into play, B must 1) touch 2) a scrimmage kick 3) beyond the neutral zone. All three things must happen. In the Saints/Eagles scenario, part 2 was not met since it was a fumble and not a scrimmage kick.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 02:53:28 PM »
Reading case book 5.1.3 page 42.  It says that if R blocks a field goal kick any recovery by k beyond or behind the neutral zone results in a first down for k.

My understanding is this is different than punts in that a k recovery of a blocked punt must be recovered beyond the line to gain OR if recovered behind the neutral zone advanced beyond the line to gain.

If my understanding is correct why  the difference I wonder?

I don't have the case book handy to see what you're referencing, but remember this:

On scrimmage kicks, the neutral zone is expanded 2 yards to allow for the defense to block the kick.  Any touching that happens within 2 yards of the LOS is considered touching behind the LOS, and is ignored.  This was created to allow normal line play and for us to not be too technical and rule that the defense "muffed" it beyond the NZ when they really just blocked the kick and made a good play.

Now if this was a shank punt that went high in the air, and the defense muffs it 1 yard beyond, then it's a different story.

Knowing the reason behind the rule helps you officiate it and understand it much better.

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 03:55:47 PM »
ok got it.  scrimmage kicks are handled the same and any touching in the expanded neutral zone is ignored...and if a muff that occurs beyond the expanded neutral zone is recovered by K behind the neutral zone the ball can be advanced and irregardless of any yards gained or not, it is a first down for K.  Any ball recovered by K after an R muff beyond the expanded neutral zone is also new series of downs for K, even if the line to gain was not crossed.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 03:59:00 PM by Derek Teigen »

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 06:46:02 AM »
ok got it.  scrimmage kicks are handled the same and any touching in the expanded neutral zone is ignored...and if a muff that occurs beyond the expanded neutral zone is recovered by K behind the neutral zone the ball can be advanced and irregardless of any yards gained or not, it is a first down for K.  Any ball recovered by K after an R muff beyond the expanded neutral zone is also new series of downs for K, even if the line to gain was not crossed, but K can not advance.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Effect of R blocking a field goal attempt
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 10:04:26 AM »
ok got it.  scrimmage kicks are handled the same and any touching in the expanded neutral zone is ignored...and if a muff that occurs beyond the expanded neutral zone is recovered by K behind the neutral zone the ball can be advanced and irregardless of any yards gained or not, it is a first down for K.  Any ball recovered by K after an R muff beyond the expanded neutral zone is also new series of downs for K, even if the line to gain was not crossed.

Derek, you seem to be working hard on understanding rules, which NOBODY has ever accused of being simple and clear cut.  A couple of suggestions that might help reduce the inherent confusion.

The NFHS "Kicking game" is somewhat of a game within a game, and although circumstances are understandably similar, how they're handled can be significantly different.  What applies for the "goose" may be entirely different for the "gander", and studying each is best done separately.

That "difference" is even more significant, relating to different rule codes.  NFHS, NCAA and NFL are related, but different and unique worlds, that have independent and different characteristics, skill sets, maturity levels and objectives.  Although most of the differences, that number in the hundreds, are subtle there are some stark differences that can easily confuse.  It's not a question of which approach is necessarily "better", as much as it is the "differences" require adjusted approach.

Unfortunately, a majority of spectators (coaches and players) are more familiar with what they see on TV than what they actually deal with in reality (which is why patience and a willingness to explain differences are such important tools).  If you haven't been exposed to the "Redding Study guides" (available thru NASO/Referee Magazine) you might want to check them out. 

Their format is entirely different that Rule/Case Book study, in that individual rules and detailed explanations and reasoning are presented together, with numerous practical examples.

Unfortunately, Rules knowledge is a never ending quest, because as soon as you feel really comfortable, they're going to change, or even reverse, something you're finally become comfortable with.