Author Topic: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......  (Read 10653 times)

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Offline bossman72

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #175 on: March 22, 2019, 07:30:59 PM »
Let's hope NOT.  Doing so would likely seriously reduce the timing clarity ("immediately") of the NFHS 7-5-2-e Exception 

Only for people without common sense...

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #176 on: March 23, 2019, 11:03:43 AM »
Hey Ralph, was there any discussion this year about allowing the passer to spike the ball from the shotgun formation?  What do you think that this adoption will EVER be made?
It once again made it to a floor vote. It once again failed. IMHO, there were three strikes against it :

(1) Gives passer a wider range of vision of possible receivers;
(2) a bad airborne snap could be spiked to prevent sack;
(3) NFL feels the same and restricts a snap under snapper to spike.

When we put 7-5-2d EXP in back in 1995, #1 & 2 was our main concern. It still is. This proposed rule lost some steam a couple of years age when word from NFL came that they had same concerns.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 07:41:44 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #177 on: March 23, 2019, 11:32:22 AM »
Fantastic.  I always like to know the "why" behind the rules so that we can understand the rules better.
 
There have been many rule changes that were prompted by wild occurrences. Here are some from just the past 10 years :

YEAR     RULE     CHANGE AND WHY........
____    ______   __________________________________________________________

2015    5-1-1b    Added authority for R to correct down ONLY during that series - became a big problem in a championship game.
2014    2-24-9    Status of ball unchanged after IK- B player kick airborne forward pass..once grounded was it a fumble?
2010    3-7-1     Replaced player has 3" to leave - some were flagging if he didn't start to move off when incoming sub arrived.
2009    2-14-2   New definition of scrimmage kick....Alpha XI....need I say more ?
2008    3-5-1     Unused TOs gone in OT...2nd OT..K for FG try...R uses 4 unused TOs to spook K...KICK WAS GOOD!

I've many more, if you guys are interested.....

I'M NOW INTERESTED IN WATCHING THE U-MAINE BLACK BEARS AT THE BIG DANCE. AS OUR WOMEN TAKE ON NC STATE tR:oLl

ESPN II @ 1:30 EDT. PREDICTION : Game will be tied at starting jump and will be 0-0 before it starts :P.

Men's Big Dance has 2 states that have never sent a team. Who can name 'em ??? :puke:
   

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #178 on: March 23, 2019, 04:12:03 PM »
 
I'M NOW INTERESTED IN WATCHING THE U-MAINE BLACK BEARS AT THE BIG DANCE. AS OUR WOMEN TAKE ON NC STATE tR:oLl

ESPN II @ 1:30 EDT. PREDICTION : Game will be tied at starting jump and will be 0-0 before it starts :P.

Men's Big Dance has 2 states that have never sent a team. Who can name 'em ??? :puke:


Don't go too far out on a limb, Ralph.  Unfortunately, I see they lost.

STATES:
Alaska and Wyoming?  ???

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #179 on: March 24, 2019, 07:44:14 AM »
Don't go too far out on a limb, Ralph.  Unfortunately, I see they lost.

STATES:
Alaska and Wyoming?  ???
Half right, GA Ump, Alaska has a good excuse as they don't have any D-I basketball schools !

Offline Patrick E.

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #180 on: March 24, 2019, 02:48:39 PM »
Attached is an initial attempt to outline mechanics for the 40/25 second clock.  Any comments, suggestions, complaints, etc. are appreciated.

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #181 on: March 24, 2019, 04:57:26 PM »
Half right, GA Ump, Alaska has a good excuse as they don't have any D-I basketball schools !

North Dakota is my final guess.
One should look at this year's brackets before posting.

Ralph, is it your state of Maine?  Have the Black Bears made the men's tourney in the past?

« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 11:03:44 PM by GA Umpire »

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #182 on: March 24, 2019, 05:54:00 PM »
Attached is an initial attempt to outline mechanics for the 40/25 second clock.  Any comments, suggestions, complaints, etc. are appreciated.
This looks pretty inclusive, although based on past precedent here in MA I believe we'll be having an "exception" for the 40 sec clock and stay with a 25 sec clock that starts on the R's RFP signal.  Should be an interesting year in MA.  Training seminars coming up shortly - we'll see how it goes!
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #183 on: March 24, 2019, 06:04:09 PM »
Only for people without common sense...

I've been surprised, a few times, what it appears "common sense" sounds like from the other side of a sideline.

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #184 on: March 24, 2019, 10:16:24 PM »
Attached is an initial attempt to outline mechanics for the 40/25 second clock.  Any comments, suggestions, complaints, etc. are appreciated.
Patrick, the current rule for a 1st down for A in NCAA (and Texas) play is to reset the play clock to 40 seconds when the ball becomes dead. Only the game clock starts on R's ready-for-play signal. The only times that a 1st down results in the play clock being reset to 25 seconds is when a 1st down is awarded to B or is awarded to either team following a measurement. The chart should read (1st down awarded to B = 25, snap). 1st down awarded to A after a measurement would be covered under measurement (25, ready for play).  Unless NFHS releases a specific directive to the contrary, 1st downs by A in the course of ordinary play, whether inbounds or out-of-bounds, reset the play clock to 40 seconds. The only difference will be in the game clock status.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #185 on: March 25, 2019, 06:58:06 AM »
North Dakota is my final guess.
One should look at this year's brackets before posting.

Ralph, is it your state of Maine?  Have the Black Bears made the men's tourney in the past?
You nailed it, GA Ump, the Black bears are the only D-I team in Maine, Maine is the only state that HAS a D-I team that has never gone dancing. While our arch-rival, UNH, hasn't gone either, Dartmouth has gone several times as Ivy League champs.
    aWaRd

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #186 on: March 25, 2019, 07:02:16 AM »
This looks pretty inclusive, although based on past precedent here in MA I believe we'll be having an "exception" for the 40 sec clock and stay with a 25 sec clock that starts on the R's RFP signal.  Should be an interesting year in MA.  Training seminars coming up shortly - we'll see how it goes!
IMHO, if a state chooses not to use a NFHS rule (1-7- state's rights excluded) they lose their right to vote at the annual rules committee meeting.

Offline Jackhammer

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #187 on: March 25, 2019, 09:12:20 PM »
Tomorrow night I address the coaches at their Spring clinic. I'm sure a  portion of the meeting will be regarding the 40" clock and will be as ready as I can for that. An even hotter topic will be Maine's decision to have an 8-man football division. The 10 schools involved will be allowed to :

(1) Continue to use 300' X 160' field (all 10 have them;

(2) Modify to 240' X 120' field (none have 'em - no new schools, only schools dropping to 8);

(3) Keep @ 240' but reducing to 120' wide.

Any opinions from you 6-8-9 football guys regarding the size of fields and other aspects that may arise ????? Moving sidelines sounds much easier then moving end zones...ie...moving goal posts. I believe the schools involved all aspire to return to 11 some day.

                                                     

DIdn't see any more on this part of the discussion....but goodness gracious you better assign long distance runners with extremely good fitness to work an 8-player game on a regulation 11-player field....

8-player scores in these parts will regularly be 100 point games....they go up and down the field.
"The only whistle that kills a play is an inadvertent one"

"The only thing black and white in officiating is the uniform"

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #188 on: March 26, 2019, 10:20:24 AM »
DIdn't see any more on this part of the discussion....but goodness gracious you better assign long distance runners with extremely good fitness to work an 8-player game on a regulation 11-player field....

8-player scores in these parts will regularly be 100 point games....they go up and down the field.
My understanding is that our state association plans to invite all 8-man schools (10) in for a discussion as to field uniformity. Talking to some of the involved coaches, it appears that the majority favor 100 yd. field with 40 yd. wide. It's much easier to move the sidelines than to move the goalposts ! It was felt that the narrow field would help contain the "wide open spaces" and the 100 yards could reduce the high scores. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

We're off to Florida for a few daze and ole' Dell stays put.   tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl Back on April 8th .  tiphat:
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 11:04:01 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline KWH

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #189 on: March 26, 2019, 02:49:18 PM »
Attached is an initial attempt to outline mechanics for the 40/25 second clock.  Any comments, suggestions, complaints, etc. are appreciated.

This is NOT the NFHS version. 
As this is not a print year for the officials manual an official supplement will be issued. 
Likely after the state rules interpreters meeting in July.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #190 on: March 27, 2019, 08:51:30 AM »
Pardon me again, but this is part of my gripe against the early rollout. Why couldn't we wait until such time as we have all the particulars (casebook plays, mechanics procedures, clarity on the rule language) before implementing a new rule?

I have a Spring game in May. My assigner called the other day and said they wanted to play by the new rule. I'm supposed to be able to show up and explain the new :40 to them and the mechanics won't be out until July. It just seems chaotic to me.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 10:26:14 AM by CalhounLJ »

Offline Patrick E.

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #191 on: April 05, 2019, 07:08:01 PM »
If anybody has this year's list of potential rule changes and/or editorial changes in electronic format, could you please PM me?  I would like to get a copy.  Thank you in advance.

Offline Magician

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #192 on: April 07, 2019, 11:10:12 PM »
Pardon me again, but this is part of my gripe against the early rollout. Why couldn't we wait until such time as we have all the particulars (casebook plays, mechanics procedures, clarity on the rule language) before implementing a new rule?

I have a Spring game in May. My assigner called the other day and said they wanted to play by the new rule. I'm supposed to be able to show up and explain the new :40 to them and the mechanics won't be out until July. It just seems chaotic to me.

Because the new rules don't apply until next Fall. If someone is asking you to use them now they are being premature. The only thing the rules committee has announced is the rules that will be in effect this fall at a high level. Now is the time they work through all the stuff you are saying. Your assigner needs to understand there are no new rules yet, just approved changes that will be implemented in the rule book for this Fall. You can try to apply based on what you know but it obviously won't be complete. Your issue isn't with the NFHS rules committee but with your assigner.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #193 on: April 08, 2019, 06:53:22 AM »
Are the hardcopy books (rules & case plays) from 2018 going to be used for 2019 with individual addendums issued for each book for 2019?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Online bama_stripes

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #194 on: April 08, 2019, 07:02:07 AM »
Quote
Your issue isn't with the NFHS rules committee but with your assigner.

Thatís pretty naive, Magician.  Any coach worth his salt is going to want his team to get a jump on new rules instead of waiting until fall practice begins.  Itís up to the officials working those spring games / practices to make sure the coaches know that the rules arenít in final form yet.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #195 on: April 08, 2019, 07:20:23 AM »
Following our 1st NFHS rules orientation seminar here in MA one question that kept coming up in the post seminar discussion was is there a compiled document of the "rules differences" ordered by rule number available anywhere?  We (here in MA) have always stressed the importance of knowing where in the rules the details reside and believe that a side by side rules differences summary would be very helpful.  So far we've come up with 3 or 4 different documents but none of them are in a rule number format.  We've got some excellent sources from Matt Sumstine (Hawaii) and George Demetriou (Colorado) but we're still looking for anything else out there that could help.  Any other website and downloadable stuff recommendations?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 07:47:00 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline Magician

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #196 on: April 08, 2019, 01:16:31 PM »
Thatís pretty naive, Magician.  Any coach worth his salt is going to want his team to get a jump on new rules instead of waiting until fall practice begins.  Itís up to the officials working those spring games / practices to make sure the coaches know that the rules arenít in final form yet.
I'm assuming by assigner we are talking about another official or retired official. His expectations are going to be different than a coach. The coach can ask all he wants but until the rule changes are finalized and documented we can't expect to enforce them as they'll be implemented in the Fall. If the coach insists I would tell him we'll do the best we can with what we understand about the rule (some are more straight forward than others), but that doesn't mean it will match all the details of how the new rule will be covered. He will most likely understand that.

You think it's bad now when people complain about the new rules passing in January and not released until February. If we didn't know anything about them until the rule books came out in June it would be even more ugly. If you want new rule books released in February the rules committee will have to meet in October. Good luck with that!

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #197 on: April 09, 2019, 07:43:17 AM »
FLASHBACK : 2005....

I was the WH in an all star game held the summer after graduation for the seniors.
NEW RULE : 7-5-1; 7-5-2e  Only one forward pass may be thrown during a down.
Team A ,trailing 24-0, completes 2 forward passes for TD;
Team B coach calls TO and asks : "That's illegal now !!"
I responded : "We're playing with last year's rules."
Team B coach : "Why ???"
My rebuttal : "Because we are using last year's players. "

LESSON LEARNED : I should have informed coaches in pre-game that we were playing by last year's rules as not all of us may have a solid handle on the changes.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #198 on: April 09, 2019, 08:15:56 AM »
FLASHBACK : 2005....

I was the WH in an all star game held the summer after graduation for the seniors.
NEW RULE : 7-5-1; 7-5-2e  Only one forward pass may be thrown during a down.
Team A ,trailing 24-0, completes 2 forward passes for TD;
Team B coach calls TO and asks : "That's illegal now !!"
I responded : "We're playing with last year's rules."
Team B coach : "Why ???"
My rebuttal : "Because we are using last year's players. "

LESSON LEARNED : I should have informed coaches in pre-game that we were playing by last year's rules as not all of us may have a solid handle on the changes.

In my situation we are using next years (or this year's) players, and the coaches are already preparing for the new rule by coaching their kids. It's unfair for them to have to do so without at least a basic understanding of the new rule. Granted, this rule is more involved than most. Why not give the schools at least a year to be able to upgrade their clocks, etc.? Kind of like the uniform changes.

Offline bossman72

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Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #199 on: April 09, 2019, 08:52:49 AM »
Why not give the schools at least a year to be able to upgrade their clocks, etc.? Kind of like the uniform changes.

Because you don't need visible play clocks to officiate the new rule...