Author Topic: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......  (Read 10632 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 3049
  • FAN REACTION: +381/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #200 on: April 09, 2019, 10:29:11 AM »
In my situation we are using next years (or this year's) players, and the coaches are already preparing for the new rule by coaching their kids. It's unfair for them to have to do so without at least a basic understanding of the new rule. Granted, this rule is more involved than most. Why not give the schools at least a year to be able to upgrade their clocks, etc.? Kind of like the uniform changes.
Where this isn't a Manual print year we'll have to rely on info supplied by the NFHS, much of which has been posted here. The concern of postponing the new rule to a future year as to allow schools update their play clock was that it would imply that a school SHOULD have a play clock. Many schools (all in Maine) wouldn't be able to afford such. Hopefully we can proceed with what we now have until we have more.

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 793
  • FAN REACTION: +147/-4
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #201 on: April 09, 2019, 03:22:54 PM »
In my situation we are using next years (or this year's) players, and the coaches are already preparing for the new rule by coaching their kids. It's unfair for them to have to do so without at least a basic understanding of the new rule. Granted, this rule is more involved than most. Why not give the schools at least a year to be able to upgrade their clocks, etc.? Kind of like the uniform changes.
Almost all of our schools have visible play clocks. When we started the experiment 3 years ago I believe our schools had even less time to address their play clocks. From what I understand in most cases it was a pretty simple code change or configuration change that took minutes. Some may have had to update a switch in the press box but again it was pretty cheap. I didn't hear of any issues with schools having to spend a lot of money or time, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 3598
  • FAN REACTION: +281/-537
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #202 on: April 09, 2019, 07:54:26 PM »
Conversion and/or installation of Scoreboard Play Clocks, in areas where they are currently a distinct minority will pose a greater challenge. 

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 793
  • FAN REACTION: +147/-4
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #203 on: April 09, 2019, 10:08:28 PM »
Conversion and/or installation of Scoreboard Play Clocks, in areas where they are currently a distinct minority will pose a greater challenge. 
The good news is one of the experimental states (Colorado) didn't have many visible play clocks and they had no issues with it. Some schools have now started putting in visible play clocks, but they aren't needed. The issue with visible play clocks is you have to be more strict in enforcing the play clock. You can be a little more flexible without visible play clocks.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 3049
  • FAN REACTION: +381/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #204 on: April 10, 2019, 08:31:08 AM »
The good news is one of the experimental states (Colorado) didn't have many visible play clocks and they had no issues with it. Some schools have now started putting in visible play clocks, but they aren't needed. The issue with visible play clocks is you have to be more strict in enforcing the play clock. You can be a little more flexible without visible play clocks.
There have been rumors of some "battery failures" on ReadyRefs during running time in runaway games  ;) ;) !

Offline Morningrise

  • *
  • Posts: 524
  • FAN REACTION: +20/-5
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #205 on: April 12, 2019, 08:44:14 AM »
Agree that if you didn't need visible stadium clocks to play football with a 25 second PC in 2018, you don't need visible stadium clocks to play football with a 40 second PC in 2019 either.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 08:58:50 AM by Morningrise »

Offline Patrick E.

  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • FAN REACTION: +3/-3
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #206 on: April 12, 2019, 02:06:58 PM »
I'm surprised ready ref hasn't added a warning feature for the 20 or 25 second warning depending on rule code.  It already gives you a 10 second warning followed by the 5 second count down.

I called Joe Grimm today about added a 25 second warning feature.  After explaining why I thought it would be a good feature, he advised that he hasn't received much interest.  You can contact him at 800.223.5395 if you wish to also express interest.

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 977
  • FAN REACTION: +27/-28
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #207 on: April 13, 2019, 10:23:06 AM »
Agree that if you didn't need visible stadium clocks to play football with a 25 second PC in 2018, you don't need visible stadium clocks to play football with a 40 second PC in 2019 either.

I appreciate all the help and direction from all you guys. I also realize you donít need a visible play clock to play football. I also realize that every team I officiate for has a visible play clock and are very dependent on it. On the rare occasion one goes out it makes the game very awkward. Trust me- my teams are gonna need a way to use theirs. I also realize how very slow the administrative wheels turn in my state. All,of this is at the root of my concern.

Also, I appreciate the fact that you guys have all the questions answered. The posts on here have been very helpful. But at this point thatís all they are- posts on a message board. I can imagine trying to explain the procedure to a coach and he asks me where I got that idea. How about a memo or supplement to the manual?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 793
  • FAN REACTION: +147/-4
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #208 on: April 15, 2019, 12:44:49 AM »
I appreciate all the help and direction from all you guys. I also realize you donít need a visible play clock to play football. I also realize that every team I officiate for has a visible play clock and are very dependent on it. On the rare occasion one goes out it makes the game very awkward. Trust me- my teams are gonna need a way to use theirs. I also realize how very slow the administrative wheels turn in my state. All,of this is at the root of my concern.

Also, I appreciate the fact that you guys have all the questions answered. The posts on here have been very helpful. But at this point thatís all they are- posts on a message board. I can imagine trying to explain the procedure to a coach and he asks me where I got that idea. How about a memo or supplement to the manual?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
If you already have visible play clocks they may already have the capability or it's fairly easy to update them. I'm basing this on the feedback I heard from our schools. It was often just a new toggle or a quick configuration change. No new wiring or clocks from what I heard.

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2394
  • FAN REACTION: +77/-25
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #209 on: April 15, 2019, 06:27:41 AM »
If you already have visible play clocks they may already have the capability or it's fairly easy to update them. I'm basing this on the feedback I heard from our schools. It was often just a new toggle or a quick configuration change. No new wiring or clocks from what I heard.

All of our schools have visible play clocks.  When the rules changes were announced, we immediately informed them of the need to modify the timing devices.  To my knowledge, there have been no reported problems.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

  • *
  • Posts: 3059
  • FAN REACTION: +76/-105
  • High School (MA & RI)
    • Massachusetts Independent Football Officials Association
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #210 on: April 15, 2019, 08:59:16 AM »
A bit confused by the Play Clock / Game Clock document on the NFHS site.  It was pointed out by our board interpreter that the section detailing the 40/25 clock operation (Section E. Play Clock Procedures) explicitly states that it applies "Ö.. if and when visible play clocks are available to be used."  His (and several other board interpreters) read of this is that if we don't have a visible play clock, that the 2018 25 second play clock will apply all game.  Several of the RI officials that I worked with last season also said that they have been told that the 40 second clock only applies to sites with visible play clocks.  Is the document simply poorly worded??
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline ilyazhito

  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-6
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Reply #211 on: April 15, 2019, 09:18:04 AM »
The 40-second play clock will apply to everyone, visible play clock or not. Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Indiana, and anyone else who experimented with a 40-second play clock, did not universally have visible play clocks.

What was intended to be said in the document was that the play clock operator would react to the specified signals (dead-ball signal, stop-the-clock signal, or incomplete pass signal) as his cue to start the 40-second play clock, or to the pumping of one hand to reset the play clock to 25 seconds (or of 2 hands, to reset to 40 seconds).
 In the absence of a visible play clock, the officials themselves would start a 40-second play clock following the appropriate signals in the appropriate situations (dead-ball signal for a running play that ends inbounds without the game clock stopping, stop-clock signal for a running play that ends inbounds with a game-clock stoppage (first down gained), or out of bounds, or incomplete pass signal for an incomplete pass). The back judge (or other official responsible for the play clock) would also act on the one hand pumping and two-hand pumping signals from the Referee (the 25 and 40 second rests, respectively).
Because the people who write the rules for NFHS apparently do not have a proper command of English grammar and/or style, the words on the paper get butchered to mean that the 40-second play clock does not apply if there is no visible play clock available, which is now contrary to the 2019 NFHS football rules. The officials are, and remain, responsible for the play clock when there is no visible play clock, whether the play clock will be reset to 25 seconds, as it always had been before, or to 40 seconds in some situations and 25 in others, as it has been in the NFL and NCAA for the past 10+ years, and it will be in NFHS starting with the upcoming 2019 season.