Author Topic: Illegal Kicking and Batting  (Read 366 times)

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Offline Derek Teigen

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Illegal Kicking and Batting
« on: July 12, 2019, 05:09:18 PM »
I modified this POST: 

Hello.  I hope everybody is having a great summer.  I Just got my rule book and am studying for my test.  Question #1 says Illegal Kicking and Batting penalty is now 10 yards and that is true (rule change for 2019). I'm trying to come up with easy way  to remember.  For  illegal kicking/batting is it correct to to say this:

1.  No player may ever purposely kick a ball other than the free or scrimmage kick.  That's easy and right out of the rule book.

The question of batting is more murky for me.  I understand a receiver can batt a pass in either direction (as long as it is not a backwards pass) and I am assuming the defender can batt the ball in either direction as well.  But the rule also says that you can batt a 'fumble in flight'.  What does that mean exactly?  CAn somebody describe when a fumble becomes 'in flight'?

Looking forward to the season!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 05:57:39 PM by Derek Teigen »

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2019, 06:07:01 PM »
I modified this POST: 

The question of batting is more murky for me.  I understand a receiver can batt a pass in either direction (as long as it is not a backwards pass) and I am assuming the defender can batt the ball in either direction as well.  But the rule also says that you can batt a 'fumble in flight'.  What does that mean exactly?  CAn somebody describe when a fumble becomes 'in flight'?

Looking forward to the season!
A fumble is "in flight" after possession is lost by a runner, and before the fumble has touched the ground.

2-18

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2019, 06:37:42 PM »
Thanks for that and i had looked at 2-18 but it didnít specifically address flight of fumbles.    So once a fumble touches the ground it canít be batted at all by either team?
Thank you
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 06:39:58 PM by Derek Teigen »

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2019, 06:49:05 PM »
Thatís right unless itís a scrimmage kick batted backward by K.


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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2019, 07:31:13 PM »
That's true for a kick but bear in mind that that a scrimmage kick can't be fumbled.  Only a ball in possession and control can be fumbled and a scrimmage kick is no longer a kick once it is in possession and control of a ball carrier.  So, effectively a kick and a fumble by definition are mutually exclusive terms.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 07:45:17 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2019, 08:18:35 PM »
Yeah I overlooked the fact that he was talking about a fumble. Sorry


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Offline blandis

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2019, 10:28:46 PM »
When it comes to batting I break it down to two parts each with an exception: 1) Any ball in flight may be batted in any direction except a backwards may not be batted forward; 2) no grounded ball may be batted except by K to keep a scrimmage kick from entering the end zone.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2019, 06:51:16 AM »
Also realize that true IK & IB are fairly rare events.  Most of the time a grounded ball is ďkickedĒ or ďbattedĒ itís accidental contact with a foot or leg, or an attempt to gain possession of the ball (a muff).

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2019, 08:07:40 AM »


1.  No player may ever purposely kick a ball other than the free or scrimmage kick.  That's easy and right out of the rule book.

Rule 2 is critical for new and experienced officials to read over and over again. The rule book definition of certain terms isnít the same as the everyday definition.  Your comment above is a great example of this.  Kicking (and batting) are both intentional acts - both can only be done on purpose.  As Bama said, a player canít ďaccidentallyĒ kick or bat the ball.

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2019, 08:32:14 PM »
If a player is reaching down for a fumbled ball ( a ball that is on the ground) but then kicks the ball then it would be a judgement call on whether or not it was on purpose.  In the case I described the kick would not be a foul because it was not done on purpose?

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2019, 12:20:28 AM »
If a player is reaching down for a fumbled ball ( a ball that is on the ground) but then kicks the ball then it would be a judgement call on whether or not it was on purpose.  In the case I described the kick would not be a foul because it was not done on purpose?

Correct.  On any potential illegal batting or illegal kicking of a loose ball we must 1st judge intent.  If in our judgment the act is not an intentional act, then there is no foul.  We must judge the act to be intentional to be a foul.
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Offline FLAHL

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2019, 07:05:10 AM »
The only illegal kicks Iíve seen in HS happened when a punter bobbled a snap in the EZ and a snap sailed over a punterís head inside the 5.  Both times the punter kicked the ball through the EZ. Iíve never seen an illegal bat in HS. 

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2019, 07:58:41 AM »
.
Rule 2 is critical for new and experienced officials to read over and over again. The rule book definition of certain terms isnít the same as the everyday definition.  Your comment above is a great example of this.  Kicking (and batting) are both intentional acts - both can only be done on purpose.  As Bama said, a player canít ďaccidentallyĒ kick or bat the ball.

Perhaps, but it is certainly possible to "MUFF" (NFHS 2-27) a ball with either the foot, or hand.

Offline prab

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2019, 11:54:58 AM »
The only illegal kicks Iíve seen in HS happened when a punter bobbled a snap in the EZ and a snap sailed over a punterís head inside the 5.  Both times the punter kicked the ball through the EZ. Iíve never seen an illegal bat in HS.
I've seen ONE illegal bat.  Due to a penalty, K was kicking off from the R-45.  K pooched the ball high.  For reasons most likely known to no one, all R players backed away and watched the kick hit the ground at R 25 yard line and bounce high into the air.  Then, again for reasons most likely known to no one, K2 leaped into the air and used a volleyball spiking motion to bat the ball TOWARDS R's GOAL LINE.  R recovered ball at R 1 yard line with his knee on the ground. 

Offline fudilligas

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 06:11:15 PM »
I've seen ONE illegal bat.  Due to a penalty, K was kicking off from the R-45.  K pooched the ball high.  For reasons most likely known to no one, all R players backed away and watched the kick hit the ground at R 25 yard line and bounce high into the air.  Then, again for reasons most likely known to no one, K2 leaped into the air and used a volleyball spiking motion to bat the ball TOWARDS R's GOAL LINE.  R recovered ball at R 1 yard line with his knee on the ground.

How about a PAT or FG attempt where the holder fumbles the ball and the kicker kicks the ball, which is lying on the ground, through the uprights....is this not also an illegal kick

Is this illegal batting----A1 fumbles the ball on the B4 and the ball goes into the end zone....is order to prevent an A player falling on the ball for a TD, B7 lying on the ground and unable to fall on the ball, reaches out and intentionally bats the ball out of the EZ

Offline Magician

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Re: Illegal Kicking and Batting
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2019, 09:41:55 PM »
How about a PAT or FG attempt where the holder fumbles the ball and the kicker kicks the ball, which is lying on the ground, through the uprights....is this not also an illegal kick

Is this illegal batting----A1 fumbles the ball on the B4 and the ball goes into the end zone....is order to prevent an A player falling on the ball for a TD, B7 lying on the ground and unable to fall on the ball, reaches out and intentionally bats the ball out of the EZ

Yes, that would be an illegal bat.

I've only seen 2 illegal bats in 18 seasons and both were last year and similar. They both involved free kicks that were going out of bounds and the kicking team batted it back into the field of play so a teammate could recover it. In one case they did and the other they didn't.