Author Topic: 10 Second Subtraction  (Read 1433 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2019, 03:10:43 PM »
Very inexpensive

[urlhttps://www.amazon.com/Original-BAOFENG-400-470mhz-Transceiver-Programming/dp/B074C1XQFL[/url]

The operators don't want to visit with us before the game, but they are perfectly OK with coming down to the dressing room post-game to return the radio? 
(I darned sure don't want to track down the CO post-game to retrieve it.)

Maybe we each just buy about 50 of them, set them to the exact same frequency, and start handing them out to COs (to keep in the pressbox) for the next four years, and see if we get all of the schools covered.

Or maybe the schools can buy these, and give one to the R or B before the game, to be left in the dressing room after the game.  Is $40 asking too much?   

Or, maybe the schools can spring for a field mic.  Even the high dollar systems are less than $700.  Just plug into the PA system, and, voila - announcements, plus communications with the CO/PCO. 

Don't give me some 'economic burden' garbage.

Robert

Offline bctgp

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2019, 03:36:58 PM »
How does this look?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 03:45:59 PM by bctgp »

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2019, 06:44:20 PM »
Very inexpensive

[urlhttps://www.amazon.com/Original-BAOFENG-400-470mhz-Transceiver-Programming/dp/B074C1XQFL[/url]

I got a pair for less than $10 on ebay. 

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2019, 06:45:55 PM »
The operators don't want to visit with us before the game, but they are perfectly OK with coming down to the dressing room post-game to return the radio? 
(I darned sure don't want to track down the CO post-game to retrieve it.)

Maybe we each just buy about 50 of them, set them to the exact same frequency, and start handing them out to COs (to keep in the pressbox) for the next four years, and see if we get all of the schools covered.

Or maybe the schools can buy these, and give one to the R or B before the game, to be left in the dressing room after the game.  Is $40 asking too much?   

Or, maybe the schools can spring for a field mic.  Even the high dollar systems are less than $700.  Just plug into the PA system, and, voila - announcements, plus communications with the CO/PCO. 

Don't give me some 'economic burden' garbage.

Robert

I’ve worked several stadiums where the stadium manager said, we have a mic, but the coach doesn’t like it so we don’t use it. Huh?

Offline TXMike

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2019, 06:48:13 PM »
I’ve worked several stadiums where the stadium manager said, we have a mic, but the coach doesn’t like it so we don’t use it. Huh?
that’s one way to prevent announcing of numbers 😁😁

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2019, 07:59:50 PM »
I’ve worked several stadiums where the stadium manager said, we have a mic, but the coach doesn’t like it so we don’t use it. Huh?

You can't fix stupid, or whatever that is.  OK, coach.  I'll be in your hip pocket when I need to communicate with the clock operators.

Robert

Offline JasonTX

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2019, 10:04:47 PM »
The real fun will be with the subvarsity games.  Usually those are different clock operator and less talented than the Friday night guy or gal.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2019, 08:12:27 AM »
The real fun will be with the subvarsity games.  Usually those are different clock operator and less talented than the Friday night guy or gal.

We may have to stand over the ball, wind the clock, then stock after 10 seconds or when the 15 year old kid decides to stop it. 

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2019, 10:08:36 AM »
We may have to stand over the ball, wind the clock, then stock after 10 seconds or when the 15 year old kid decides to stop it.

You may have hit on something.  When does the clock start following a 10-second subtraction?  Ah - on the Referee's signal (by rule)!  So, we just go to the ball, wind the clock - but don't let anybody snap it - then back off after 10 seconds, and let the clock keep running.  Tell the teams that's what we're going to do, then go.  If Team A was the offended team, they won't care.  They are probably gonna run 24 more seconds off the clock before they snap, anyway (if they are smart).  If the offended team is Team B, then we just need to hold the snap, then back off quickly, to let Team A snap the ball as quickly as they can legally.
That could work - in the absence of a good way to communicate with the CO.   

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2019, 10:37:23 AM »
By the way, did anybody see the final 1:01 of the NFL Hall of Fame game last night?

Team A (Denver) was behind, the clock was running, and they committed a false start.  Atlanta accepted the penalty and the 10-second subtraction (apparently, the 10SS applies in the last 2 minutes in the NFL).  (As an aside, the game clock showed less that 1 minute while this was happening, which piqued my attention, i.e., "Hey are they gonna have a 10SS?")  After discussion with teams, Walt Anderson announced the 5-yard penalty included a "10-second runoff," since they were inside the last 2-minutes,  and had the CO set the game clock to 0:51, and announced the clock would start on his "whistle."  As they were about to return to play, the crew re-convened, and Anderson made a correction announcement, that Denver had elected to take their final time out to avoid the 10SS, and that the game clock would start on the snap.  All well and good.  They got everything right.  But, it would have been more efficient for the officials on Denver's side to have got their coach's decision regarding the use of his time out before Anderson made his first announcement.
They don't need my defense, but, in the crew's defense, and for all I know, the Denver coach may have changed his mind, in which case, the inefficiency was all on the team.

My real point in all of this is that I immediately recognized the potential for the 10SS, and followed and comprehended the proceedings fully.  Even if we do it with less-than-perfect efficiency, let's get it right - as they did.

Robert

Offline JasonTX

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2019, 07:58:37 PM »
You may have hit on something.  When does the clock start following a 10-second subtraction?  Ah - on the Referee's signal (by rule)!  So, we just go to the ball, wind the clock - but don't let anybody snap it - then back off after 10 seconds, and let the clock keep running.  Tell the teams that's what we're going to do, then go.  If Team A was the offended team, they won't care.  They are probably gonna run 24 more seconds off the clock before they snap, anyway (if they are smart).  If the offended team is Team B, then we just need to hold the snap, then back off quickly, to let Team A snap the ball as quickly as they can legally.
That could work - in the absence of a good way to communicate with the CO.

Just gotta find a way to tell the Play Clock operator to delay starting his until 10 seconds has ran off.    hEaDbAnG

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2019, 08:27:30 PM »
Just gotta find a way to tell the Play Clock operator to delay starting his until 10 seconds has ran off.    hEaDbAnG

As Hans and Franz said, “We are here to pump YOU up!”

Robert

Offline JDM

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2019, 11:46:11 AM »
These are perfect little radios to hand to the CO, used on different frequency than the O2O radios.  This is a very quick way to get that clock set right.  They are very small and can fit in your pocket.



What's the advantage of buying and using a radio on another frequency versus a crew O2O? Of course there a risk of giving him a radio in the first place. It might be returned with ketchup or mustard or some other condiment or food on it...

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2019, 06:57:49 AM »
You don't want a non TASO CO listening to the O2O.

Offline TXMike

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2019, 07:03:38 AM »
Amen!!!

Offline JDM

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2019, 12:09:41 PM »
You don't want a non TASO CO listening to the O2O.

Good point.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2019, 01:30:17 PM »
You don't want a non TASO CO listening to the O2O.

Especially when it's 65 to 0.

Offline Etref

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2019, 03:53:20 PM »
 LOL

Yep
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2019, 09:34:28 PM »
Especially when it's 65 to 0.

“These guys are horrible.”........”oooops....”

Offline Biliruben

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2019, 11:57:39 AM »
You may have hit on something.  When does the clock start following a 10-second subtraction?  Ah - on the Referee's signal (by rule)!  So, we just go to the ball, wind the clock - but don't let anybody snap it - then back off after 10 seconds, and let the clock keep running.  Tell the teams that's what we're going to do, then go.  If Team A was the offended team, they won't care.  They are probably gonna run 24 more seconds off the clock before they snap, anyway (if they are smart).  If the offended team is Team B, then we just need to hold the snap, then back off quickly, to let Team A snap the ball as quickly as they can legally.
That could work - in the absence of a good way to communicate with the CO.

While this is an easy solution for the GC, the PC is now mired in confusion. When you wind it over the ball, GC and PC will both start their clocks and just letting it run after 10 has elapsed will put the PC in an awkward position. I would think to alter this to wind the clock over the ball, run 10s, stop the clock(s) and pump the PC back up. Move to positions and make ready with a wind.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2019, 12:45:44 PM »
While this is an easy solution for the GC, the PC is now mired in confusion. When you wind it over the ball, GC and PC will both start their clocks and just letting it run after 10 has elapsed will put the PC in an awkward position. I would think to alter this to wind the clock over the ball, run 10s, stop the clock(s) and pump the PC back up. Move to positions and make ready with a wind.

For SV, this method would work since there is never a PC for SV games.  And let 'er keep running!

Offline bctgp

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2019, 02:53:50 PM »
Does 10-second runoff apply in this scenario:

In the 4-Qtr, Team A 3rd and 5 from the B-35. A22 runs the ball and tackled very near the B-30 where his helmet comes off (not due to foul). The officials stop the clock for helmet off and subsequently realize they need to measure as it is not clear if the line to gain was made. There were 8 seconds on the game clock at the end of the play.

Does that provide us with multiple reasons to stop the clock and thus no 10-second runoff option?


Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2019, 03:20:03 PM »
While this is an easy solution for the GC, the PC is now mired in confusion. When you wind it over the ball, GC and PC will both start their clocks and just letting it run after 10 has elapsed will put the PC in an awkward position. I would think to alter this to wind the clock over the ball, run 10s, stop the clock(s) and pump the PC back up. Move to positions and make ready with a wind.

I have no problem with this, either, when there is no effective way to communicate with the C/O.

Robert

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2019, 03:48:23 PM »
Does 10-second runoff apply in this scenario:

In the 4-Qtr, Team A 3rd and 5 from the B-35. A22 runs the ball and tackled very near the B-30 where his helmet comes off (not due to foul). The officials stop the clock for helmet off and subsequently realize they need to measure as it is not clear if the line to gain was made. There were 8 seconds on the game clock at the end of the play.

Does that provide us with multiple reasons to stop the clock and thus no 10-second runoff option?

Lacking an AR or bulletin play on this specific scenario, I would say that, if the ball is short of the line-to-gain (after the measurement), there is a 10-second subtraction option.  Otherwise, the disincentive to keep the helmet securely strapped on is eroded.
If accepted, game over.  If declined, PC=25 for Team A helmet, 40 for Team B helmet.  Game clock starts on the snap.  And, if this was the end of the second period, he sits out the next down, unless he takes a T/O (if he has one to take), which also avoids the 10SS.

However, if the ball reached the line-to-gain, then there is NO 10-second subtraction option.  It would not be fair to penalize the team whose player lost his helmet, if a first down was earned by Team A, but we just weren't able to make that ruling in real time.  No need for a play clock.  Game clock starts on the RFP. 
And, if this was the end of the second period, he sits out the next down, unless he takes a T/O (if he has one to take).

Robert

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: 10 Second Subtraction
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2019, 11:43:15 AM »
I would say the opposite, because the helmet off was not the only reason the game clock was stopped. The game clock was stopped for the measurement, so the 10-second subtraction would no longer apply. The game clock starts on the Referee's signal, whether a 1st down was achieved or not, with 8 seconds remaining.