Author Topic: What are your "friendly reminders"?  (Read 563 times)

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Online brettjr2005

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What are your "friendly reminders"?
« on: November 07, 2019, 12:07:07 PM »
Just looking for some good rule reminders that might throw some officials for a loop. I know most here are quite knowledgeable, so some may seem like no brainers, but what are some rules that you might see officials get tripped up on? These could be situations that differ from Saturday and Sunday that might throw someone off, odd exceptions, things you almost never see, etc.

A few to start us off:

The defense cannot score on a try and the offense cannot advance a blocked try

K may not advance a recovered free kick or a muff

UNS and non-player fouls are succeeding spot (don't call that TD back)

K may not catch a free kick in flight (KCI). The touching/catching in flight exception applies only to scrimmage kicks.

There is no "forward lateral." A "lateral" thrown forward is an illegal forward pass and if it is not caught it is incomplete (and a spot foul) and the play is over. Think an end of half/game multiple lateral play, or a kick return where R throws back across the field. In NCAA and NFL the "forward lateral" is a penalty but the ball is still live and can be recovered and advanced; ie it's treated like a fumble. In NFHS it is an illegal forward pass and the play is over if the illegal forward pass falls incomplete.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 12:33:00 PM »
There ain't no such thing as a "tackle box" unless you're planning on going fishing after the game.

It's been 1 whole week since I've had to explain that to a coach.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 12:36:58 PM »
Actually there is no such thing as a lateral, period.

Online brettjr2005

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 12:47:30 PM »
Actually there is no such thing as a lateral, period.

Very true, which is why I put it in quotations, but forgot to on my final usage of the word. I was using the word colloquially, but you're 100% correct that the term does not exist at all under NFHS rules.

Offline js in sc

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 12:57:46 PM »
No pass is "uncatchable" in NFHS.
"Offsides" is really encroachment.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 01:00:32 PM »
FG's are "hot", kick tries are not.

R can't bring it out of the endzone, B can.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 01:33:06 PM »
aint a passer til you pass it.
aint a kicker til you kick it.

Offline Magician

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 02:46:48 PM »
Very true, which is why I put it in quotations, but forgot to on my final usage of the word. I was using the word colloquially, but you're 100% correct that the term does not exist at all under NFHS rules.

Using your vernacular, a forward "lateral" is legal if it's done behind the LOS. What non-officials call a lateral is actually a pass. It's either forward or backward. The location of the forward pass is important because it's not legal beyond the LOS. I'm not sure about the NFL but in NCAA an illegal forward pass beyond the LOS that is not caught it still incomplete and causes the ball to be dead.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 03:22:21 PM »
“A kick is a kick is a kick....until it’s possessed or becomes dead by rule.”

Online brettjr2005

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 03:25:19 PM »
Using your vernacular, a forward "lateral" is legal if it's done behind the LOS. What non-officials call a lateral is actually a pass. It's either forward or backward. The location of the forward pass is important because it's not legal beyond the LOS. I'm not sure about the NFL but in NCAA an illegal forward pass beyond the LOS that is not caught it still incomplete and causes the ball to be dead.
That's the reason I used "lateral" vs pass, even though a lateral isn't a thing in NFHS. I'm not referring to your typical "QB barely beyond the LoS/NZ when he intended to be behind it" because those are also treated as a typical incomplete pass in NCAA and NFL.

I'm referring to plays that are clearly meant you be backwards and occur after the ball has gone being the NZ or has changed team possession. For example, an end of the half or end of game play where a team attempts multiple backward passes/laterals/pitches, or a punt or kick return where a team attempts one or more backwards passes across the field.

ACTUALLY... I've just gone onto the NFL's online rule book and they also state that all forward passes, even illegal, are incomplete as soon as they hit the ground. They even give a situation example of a punt returner accidentally throwing the ball forward (intended to be backwards) and it hitting the ground. NCAA wording appears to be similar, but I'm 100% sure I've seen these type of plays and seen an official flag the illegal forward pass but nobody kills the play and they continue on as if it were a fumble. I even brought this situation up with some JuCo officials at my last game and they said that it would be a "running play" and a fumble under college rules.

So it looks as if I was incorrect about NFL and NCAA allowing it, but it seems like it still might be a worthwhile reminder to some that an illegal forward pass, even on these multiple backwards pass plays, ends the play if it is not caught (is incomplete).

Offline Magician

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 03:28:23 PM »
That's the reason I used "lateral" vs pass, even though a lateral isn't a thing in NFHS. I'm not referring to your typical "QB barely beyond the LoS/NZ when he intended to be behind it" because those are also treated as a typical incomplete pass in NCAA and NFL.

I'm referring to plays that are clearly meant you be backwards and occur after the ball has gone being the NZ or has changed team possession. For example, an end of the half or end of game play where a team attempts multiple backward passes/laterals/pitches, or a punt or kick return where a team attempts one or more backwards passes across the field.

ACTUALLY... I've just gone onto the NFL's online rule book and they also state that all forward passes, even illegal, are incomplete as soon as they hit the ground. They even give a situation example of a punt returner accidentally throwing the ball forward (intended to be backwards) and it hitting the ground. NCAA wording appears to be similar, but I'm 100% sure I've seen these type of plays and seen an official flag the illegal forward pass but nobody kills the play and they continue on as if it were a fumble. I even brought this situation up with some JuCo officials at my last game and they said that it would be a "running play" and a fumble under college rules.

So it looks as if I was incorrect about NFL and NCAA allowing it, but it seems like it still might be a worthwhile reminder to some that an illegal forward pass, even on these multiple backwards pass plays, ends the play if it is not caught (is incomplete).

Thanks for checking. I've never seen an illegal forward pass that is not caught ruled as a fumble in an NCAA game. They may have let it go and then later determined it was forward or if it's caught the ball doesn't become dead. Or they just missed it. But any forward pass that is not completed causes the ball to become dead in NFHS and NCAA and apparently in NFL.

Offline bossman72

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 03:38:04 PM »
A field goal is a punt that can score points.  Treat both the same.

Online brettjr2005

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 04:08:33 PM »
Thanks for checking. I've never seen an illegal forward pass that is not caught ruled as a fumble in an NCAA game. They may have let it go and then later determined it was forward or if it's caught the ball doesn't become dead. Or they just missed it. But any forward pass that is not completed causes the ball to become dead in NFHS and NCAA and apparently in NFL.
Second play on this video appears to clearly get flagged for being forward (and the announcer states there's a second flag but it's unclear if it's the same call) and the ball falls to the ground, and nobody kills the play. Perhaps the covering official lost track of the ball and thought it was caught?

at 1:00

https://youtu.be/wZRFszwvtrE
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 04:24:16 PM by brettjr2005 »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 05:11:39 PM »
Thanks for checking. I've never seen an illegal forward pass that is not caught ruled as a fumble in an NCAA game. They may have let it go and then later determined it was forward or if it's caught the ball doesn't become dead. Or they just missed it. But any forward pass that is not completed causes the ball to become dead in NFHS and NCAA and apparently in NFL.

NFHS defines Fumble (2-18) as, " any loss of player possession other than by handing, passing or legal kick.", and Passing (2-31-1) as, "Passing is throwing a ball that is in player possession......".  The difference between the two is determined by what the covering game official observes, and rules.   

Offline HLinNC

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 08:12:18 PM »
Not sure why you want to go down this rabbit hole of laterals, nor bring up NCAA and NFL rules on a NF rules discussion.

A pass is either forward or backward, legal or illegal.  That's all the "rule reminder" needed.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2019, 10:38:43 AM »
Not sure why you want to go down this rabbit hole of laterals, nor bring up NCAA and NFL rules on a NF rules discussion.

A pass is either forward or backward, legal or illegal.  That's all the "rule reminder" needed.

I think the answer is that we need to start scheduling more games per week so that we don't get bored on Wednesdays and have to argue rule language on the internet instead of applying rules in actual games.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2019, 11:11:01 AM »
 think the answer is that we need to start scheduling more games per week

Sadly we are at Week 12 and I had my knee scoped Wed. so for me "the war is over".  I hope to be available for a playoff clock assignment, at least, in a couple of weeks but we don't get many of those anymore.

Offline VALJ

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2019, 11:12:35 AM »
A field goal is a punt that can score points.  Treat both the same.

I say this as part of every pregame.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2019, 02:01:54 PM »
I think the answer is that we need to start scheduling more games per week so that we don't get bored on Wednesdays and have to argue rule language on the internet instead of applying rules in actual games.

 :thumbup
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline refjeff

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 10:06:28 PM »
think the answer is that we need to start scheduling more games per week

Sadly we are at Week 12 and I had my knee scoped Wed. so for me "the war is over".  I hope to be available for a playoff clock assignment, at least, in a couple of weeks but we don't get many of those anymore.
  Last year I had a TURP done the week after football ended.  That stands for Transurethral resection of the prostate.  I can pee much better now.

A month later I had surgery on two toes. 

I was very limited for 3 months.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2019, 11:27:53 AM »
To prevent an "eager tweeter" from tweeting.....

(1) SEE THE LEATHER BEFORE YOU BLOW : Some times we get fooled, along with the defense, as to who has the ball.
(2) ONLY NEED A WHISTLE FROM WHO HAS FORWARD PROGRESS : Reducing the number of tweeters reduces the number of eager ones.
(3) LET THE SIGNAL KILL THE PLAY ON A FAIR CATCH : We are often to kill the play on a fair catch, the signal already does that.
(4) LET THE FORWARD PASS TO HIT THE GROUND FIRST : Don't tweet when pass bounces off player's hands, there may be other hands waiting to catch it.
(5) IF UNSURE TO BLOW OR NOT TO BLOW, DON'T : If it was a muff,not a fumble, on a kick return, it's much easier to return to spot then to enforce an IW.
 

Offline VALJ

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2019, 01:30:15 PM »
As one of the former white hats in my association would say multiple times during every pregame, “see THE ball on THE ground in THE possession of THE runner before you blow THE whistle.l

Offline refjeff

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2019, 06:28:34 PM »
1. Slow down.

2.  Keep your eyes up and dead ball officiate.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2019, 08:07:54 AM »
As one of the former white hats in my association would say multiple times during every pregame, “see THE ball on THE ground in THE possession of THE runner before you blow THE whistle.l

Meanwhile everybody on the sideline behind you is screaming, "BLOW THE WHISTLE!!"

... as the pile is still moving forward ...

Offline HLinNC

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Re: What are your "friendly reminders"?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2019, 09:13:26 AM »
 ...as the pile is still moving forward ...

Had an 88-35 2A playoff game once.  The short side was a fairly new charter school.  Late in the game the home team is subbing as best they can but they aren't that deep.  A chunky, back-up, RB is literally carrying 3 opponents on his back but is still slowly churning ahead.

Visiting assistants are screaming at me to blow the whistle.  One of them actually cried out "'What about player safety?!" at the end of the play.  That actually made me chuckle, which really HACKED them off.  Three USC's and one ejected assistant later (he came on the field and kicked my WH's flag, which earned him my hat)......home team took a knee a couple of times to wind it out.