Author Topic: Untimed down?  (Read 435 times)

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Offline zebrastripes

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Untimed down?
« on: June 30, 2020, 11:48:03 AM »
During the last timed down of the 2Q, quarterback A1 scrambles and dumps the ball into an area with no eligible receivers. After he releases the ball B1, who has an opportunity to avoid the contact, hits A1. Ruling?

Online GA Umpire

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 02:46:06 PM »
During the last timed down of the 2Q, quarterback A1 scrambles and dumps the ball into an area with no eligible receivers. After he releases the ball B1, who has an opportunity to avoid the contact, hits A1. Ruling?

If the "intentional grounding" and "roughing the passer" fouls are called, you have described a double foul situation.
The penalties offset and the period is extended.

3-3-3
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 02:48:10 PM by GA Umpire »

Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2020, 03:46:16 PM »
If the "intentional grounding" and "roughing the passer" fouls are called, you have described a double foul situation.
The penalties offset and the period is extended.

3-3-3
Isn't ING an IFP? If yes, there can't be RTP.

Online js in sc

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2020, 03:50:43 PM »
Isn't ING an IFP? If yes, there can't be RTP.
ING is an IFP so no roughing, but a personal foul can be called which would offset and replay the down.

Offline SCline

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2020, 08:01:33 PM »
So if you pickup the RTP because it was an IFP, you’ll likely get to call an UNC on the offense head coach LOL

Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2020, 09:07:14 PM »
So if you pickup the RTP because it was an IFP, you’ll likely get to call an UNC on the offense head coach LOL
Well, by rule you can't have RTP if it's not a LFP, so not really sure why we should care what the coach thinks. If he wants to show his arse over a rule being applied correctly, that's his affair.

And you could still have a generic UNR or another personal foul.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2020, 10:27:50 AM »
"A rose, by any name would smell as sweet", but you have to avoid miscalling it a daffodil.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2020, 10:52:10 AM »
Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the HC is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the RTP on the QT? 'Cause if it leaks that it was an IFP he could end up with a USC, and then we'd all be put out in KP?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2020, 11:24:52 AM »
Where this couldn't qualify as a RTP, with it's bells & whistles (AFD & EOR if complete), it could be considered PF if it was with a defenseless player. You would then have to determine if the illegal pass was grounded before or after the contact. If before, you've got an untimed down for double fouls. If after, you've got a dead ball foul occurring after the half had ended with enforcement on ensuing 2nd half kickoff.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2020, 03:49:39 PM »
Not that it will generally apply in this situation, but remember also that the rule now says that play must expire DURING THE DOWN for there to be an untimed down. 

Now, if time doesn't expire during the down, and the R judges that the QB threw the illegal forward pass to illegally conserve time...  well, now I'm just stirring the pot.   :sTiR:

Offline KWH

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 03:20:13 PM »

While I always agree with Ralph...

I have ING on the passer and a PF on the defense

If the PF is ruled a live ball foul we have a double foul and replay the down per 3-3-3b.
If the PF is ruled a dead ball foul, and the ING is accepted, theb both the live ball ING and the DBPF are enforced (in that order) and we play one additional untimed down per 3-3-3a

Did I miss something???
SEE everything that you CALL, but;
Don't CALL everything you SEE!

Offline Patrick E.

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 07:17:15 PM »
it could be considered PF if it was with a defenseless player

Doesn't defenseless player of a passer only apply to a passer who throws a legal forward pass? 2-32-16 and 2-32-11

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 08:33:08 PM »
Defenseless player could apply to "a player obviously out of the play" (2-32-16g) or the foul could be deemed unnecessary contact (9-4-3g).

A passer is just one of a type of defenseless player.


.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 11:12:28 PM »
While I always agree with Ralph...

I have ING on the passer and a PF on the defense

If the PF is ruled a live ball foul we have a double foul and replay the down per 3-3-3b.
If the PF is ruled a dead ball foul, and the ING is accepted, theb both the live ball ING and the DBPF are enforced (in that order) and we play one additional untimed down per 3-3-3a

Did I miss something???

ING is Loss of down, and we don't extend on LOD fouls.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2020, 06:50:43 AM »
In the interest of both consistency and fairness, I’d never rule that hit on the QB as a dead-ball foul.  Double foul, replay with an untimed down.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2020, 07:55:00 AM »
ING is Loss of down, and we don't extend on LOD fouls.

Yes, Intentional Grounding is a LOD foul, but if this foul is part of a 'double foul', then the penalty is, in effect, declined, therefore never happened, so we DO extend another down.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Untimed down?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2020, 11:44:51 AM »
Yes, Intentional Grounding is a LOD foul, but if this foul is part of a 'double foul', then the penalty is, in effect, declined, therefore never happened, so we DO extend another down.


Yes, I was responding to the "did I miss something" to his second part where the PF is a dead ball foul.