Author Topic: targeting guidelines/interps  (Read 1280 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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targeting guidelines/interps
« on: July 07, 2025, 02:39:01 PM »
Trying to acquaint myself with the rule changes for targeting... found these examples, let me know if you agree/disagree?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy_Mi5-fYDM (I do think this was targeting, even though not called, but that's irrelevant) - if this were flagged for targeting, I would say this is non-flagrant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1n6BNDBprM - I would call this non-flagrant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAe85rcSH_M - flagrant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGFB8Bz_WuY - nonflagrant

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FCBRd9CR9SA -flagrant, he should have been disqualified x2 lol


In short, just trying to understand how to interpret the new rule and what the expectations are... I don't think the definition of flagrant fully captures the types of hits we will see... at the state meeting, they said to default to flagrant - how do you define what is, and is not flagrant?






« Last Edit: July 14, 2025, 10:51:08 AM by dammitbobby »

Offline FWREF

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Re: targeting guidelines/interps
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2025, 11:08:16 AM »
Ok, let me get my grumpy BUTT old man nonsense out of the way, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NON FLAGRANT TARGETTING. Ok i feel better.  Let's get on to the real question. On clips 1 and 4 how do you get to non flagrant? Both have clear indicators and seem to be obvious targeting fouls to me. Therefore, they would not be non flagrant, if we as a crew had a clear view then that's what should be called. Not trying to say I'm right just curious as to the different views here. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: targeting guidelines/interps
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2025, 12:18:52 PM »
Ok, let me get my grumpy BUTT old man nonsense out of the way, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NON FLAGRANT TARGETTING.

See, prior to this rule change I would 100% agree with you on that, but the UIL rule change says there can be, and that's why I'm now trying to wrap my head around how a targeting foul could be considered non-flagrant... but, that is the direction we were given, that it is a possibility.

On clips 1 and 4 how do you get to non flagrant? Both have clear indicators and seem to be obvious targeting fouls to me. Therefore, they would not be non flagrant, if we as a crew had a clear view then that's what should be called. Not trying to say I'm right just curious as to the different views here.

Because of the new UIL rule verbiage:

(UIL NOTE: In accordance with Rule 9-1-3 & Rule 9-1-4, when in question as to whether there is a foul for targeting, a foul should be called. If the foul is flagrant ("contact so extreme or deliberate that it places an opponent in danger of catastrophic injury"), the player shall be disqualified. If the foul is the player's first targeting foul of the game, AND the foul is deemed not to be flagrant, the foul does not require disqualification. A second targeting foul by the same player in the same game is automatically classified as flagrant and therefore requires the player to be disqualified.

So from that, I infer that the flagrant/nonflagrant portion of the targeting call, is a judgement call. And that's what I am trying to process here. For 1 and 4, my judgement is that the contact wasn't intentionally trying to harm the player (and yes I know and understand that is not part of the rule language, but without any other official guidance, how else am I to determine what is/is not flagrant?) and while it might meet the strict letter of the rule, the action/consequences to the opponents in 1 and 4 were not significant enough to categorize as flagrant.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: targeting guidelines/interps
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2025, 02:40:43 PM »
In my opinion you either have targeting or you don't.  If you have targeting,  the player is disqualified.  If I have an indicator and check the other boxes required for targeting,  then I'm flagging it and the player is disqualified.  If another official comes forward and has information that perhaps the contact was not crown of helmet or not to the head or neck area, then I have a decisions to make.  I could concede and pick the flag up, stick with my call, or decide to go non-flagrant.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: targeting guidelines/interps
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2025, 04:13:55 PM »
In my opinion you either have targeting or you don't.  If you have targeting,  the player is disqualified.  If I have an indicator and check the other boxes required for targeting,  then I'm flagging it and the player is disqualified.  If another official comes forward and has information that perhaps the contact was not crown of helmet or not to the head or neck area, then I have a decisions to make.  I could concede and pick the flag up, stick with my call, or decide to go non-flagrant.

Jason, as soon as I can, I will try to explain Targeting for 2025 TASO football. I am currently coordinating with TASO folks above me, to make sure my explanation is accurate. But, make no mistake, the 2025 interpretation is more complex. Your understanding is pre-2025. Let me leave it at that until I can get coordinated.

Robert

Offline JasonTX

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Re: targeting guidelines/interps
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2025, 04:41:45 PM »
Jason, as soon as I can, I will try to explain Targeting for 2025 TASO football. I am currently coordinating with TASO folks above me, to make sure my explanation is accurate. But, make no mistake, the 2025 interpretation is more complex. Your understanding is pre-2025. Let me leave it at that until I can get coordinated.

Robert

I can remember when the NCAA created the Targeting rule, there was no UIL exception to it.  At some point the UIL saw that officials were hesitant to make the call because, apparently, the officials didn't want to kick a player out of the game, so they just simply didn't throw the flag.  So, to help encourage officials to throw the flag they created this "non-flagrant" category so that officials could make the call but not kick the kid out of the game.  If the UIL wants us to not deem Targeting as flagrant then just tell us that if a player gets 2 in a game, they are disqualified at that point.  The first one is only 15 yards and a second one you are DQ'd, because I have a hard time drawing a line between different levels of targeting.  It either is or it isn't, no in between. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: targeting guidelines/interps
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2025, 08:12:25 PM »
Jason, as soon as I can, I will try to explain Targeting for 2025 TASO football. I am currently coordinating with TASO folks above me, to make sure my explanation is accurate. But, make no mistake, the 2025 interpretation is more complex. Your understanding is pre-2025. Let me leave it at that until I can get coordinated.

Robert

Thanks Elvis, this is exactly why I created this thread... I don't think the full impact of this change has been effectively communicated, and I want to make sure that I (along with everyone else) get it right.