Substitution

[JasonTX]

I know what the rules say regarding the substitution foul but just wanted to see what the opinion is and how you would handle a "minor" mistake.

Play 1:  Team A has 11 players on the field.  A 1&10 @ A20.  The ready for play has been given.  A10 leaves the field and A20 replaces him.  Before the snap, A30 leaves the field and A10 replaces him and is inside the 9 yard marks.  The ball is snapped and the run gains five yards.  (The defense was not confused and had plenty of time to react to the substitution)


Play 2:  Team A has 11 players on the field.  A 1&10 @ A20.  The ready for play has been given.  A10 leaves the field thinking a sub came in for him.  From his team area, he quickly realizes he is supposed to be in the field and take a position inside the 9 yard marks. 
(The defense was not confused and had plenty of time to react)

[Kalle]

I know what the rules say regarding the substitution foul but just wanted to see what the opinion is and how you would handle a "minor" mistake.

I'd let both of these go. No harm, no advantage, no foul. Have a word with the team A coach about it, of course.

[RickWts]

In both plays, I say let it go. While maybe technically wrong, I think we have bigger fish to fry.

[williebe]

I also think that as soon as the R and the U see this the U has to move over the ball and cover it or at least tell the snapper not to snap until he feels that the defense has time to adjust.

[NVFOA_Ump]

I'd tend to agree with the general concensus here but would make sure that both teams are aware that a repeat of the shuffling of the same player out and then back in without staying out for the mandatory minimum of 1 play cannot be repeated.  The first time if it's clear that it's not planned, and the U doesn't let the snap go off until B has had time to respond,  we can pass off as a "good faith" mistake with a warning.  IMO there's no second time and if it happens again it's got to draw a flag.

[Diablo]

Play 1:  Team A has 11 players on the field.  A 1&10 @ A20.  The ready for play has been given.  A10 leaves the field and A20 replaces him.  Before the snap, A30 leaves the field and A10 replaces him and is inside the 9 yard marks.  The ball is snapped and the run gains five yards.  (The defense was not confused and had plenty of time to react to the substitution)

I am not sure passing on this situation is right; hence will play the devil's advocate again.  

Does A10 go just to the sideline and chat with a coach then returns to the field of play?  Or does he go into the team area?  If the former, we most likely have 12 Team A players on the field longer than 3 seconds.  Don't we usually flag that?

How do you know that Team B is not confused, just because they don't run around like chickens with their heads chopped off?  I can imagine the DB keying on A10 would be saying "WTF is going on?" but maybe not looking or acting confused.  

Lastly, where do you draw the line on not flagging substitution infractions?  What if a Team A departing player stepped OB over the endline and moseyed along the limit line towards his team area?  That seems relatively harmless.  Do we pass on that?

[jg-me]

I'm with Diablo on this. Just because the D is not confused does not mean Team A gained no advantage. Perhaps a coach gave the player some key info regarding the defensive alignment as it relates to the play they have called - we don't know and it does not matter that we don't. Call the foul as it is most certainly a potential advantage and possibly a very real one. Remember we're not talking about splitting hairs such as a player being on the line or not. These are clearly infractions, both teams know that and we know that - make the call.

[Hursk]

Been lurking as usual, and appreciative of all the insight offered by the more prolific writers.

For my money, if the wing's preventive officiating ("Coach, he can't come back in") hasn't worked, then flag it in both situations ... when A10 catches the TD pass, there's no way you'll able to defend yourself from Coach B's call to the supervisor.

Back to lurking....

[RedTD]

Agree with Diablo on this. It may seem like "picking nits" but, as was noted, if A10 catches a TD pass you can bet your "bippy" that your supervisor will not think it is picky !!

[Diablo]

Play 1:  Team A has 11 players on the field.  A 1&10 @ A20.  The ready for play has been given.  A10 leaves the field and A20 replaces him.  Before the snap, A30 leaves the field and A10 replaces him and is inside the 9 yard marks.  The ball is snapped and the run gains five yards.  (The defense was not confused and had plenty of time to react to the substitution)


Play 2:  Team A has 11 players on the field.  A 1&10 @ A20.  The ready for play has been given.  A10 leaves the field thinking a sub came in for him.  From his team area, he quickly realizes he is supposed to be in the field and take a position inside the 9 yard marks. 
(The defense was not confused and had plenty of time to react)

Jason,
What's you take on these plays?

[JasonTX]

Jason,
What's you take on these plays?

These questions were asked to me so I was just seeing what the consensus was here.  I would like to use some preventive officiating in these situations if possible.  Play 2 happens quite often.  Kid leaves the field and coach immediately tells him to, "get back in there.  Who told you to get out?"  Kid runs back in and no flags.  If the wing notices this he should help out and let them know he can't come back in.  I think most of time this play goes without a flag.