Pylon Activity

[RedTD]

Three plays. What is your ruling - with rules support ?

1. Runner sweeps right and crosses the goal line, inside the pylon, with the ball in his right hand outside the pylon.

2. Runner sweeps right and at the three yard line he dives for the pylon. He crosses the sideline airborne at the one yard line (the ball never penetrates inside the pylon) and finally lands beyond the goal line extended.

3.  Runner sweeps right and at the three yard line he is contacted by a defender and becomes airborne. He crosses the sideline airborne at the one yard line (the ball never penetrates inside the pylon) and finally lands beyond the goal line extended.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Related to all:  A .The goal line, marked by the "front edge" of the pylon extends beyond the sideline. (See Rule 2.11.2 at FR-48)

                     B. A ball in player possession is out of bounds when either the ball or any part of the ball carrier touches the ground or anything else that is on or outside a boundary line except another player or game official. (See Rule 4.2.2 at FR-81)

1. Runner sweeps right and crosses the goal line, inside the pylon, with the ball in his right hand outside the pylon.
 - TD / Ball penetrated GL before the runner or the ball was OB / See Rule 4.2.4.b at FR-81

2. Runner sweeps right and at the three yard line he dives for the pylon. He crosses the sideline airborne at the one yard line (the ball never penetrates inside the pylon) and finally lands beyond the goal line extended.
 - OB (no TD) / Ball should be spotted at it's most forward point where runner was declared OB.  Ball never penetrated the GL / See Rule 4.2.4.d at FR-81

3.  Runner sweeps right and at the three yard line he is contacted by a defender and becomes airborne. He crosses the sideline airborne at the one yard line (the ball never penetrates inside the pylon) and finally lands beyond the goal line extended.
 - OB (no TD) / Ball should be spotted at it's most forward point where runner was declared OB.  Ball never penetrated the GL / See Rule 4.2.4.d at FR-81

 

[Hondo]

#3.  This is a touchdown per 2009 Play Situation #2 play 10.  "By interpretation runner remains ball carrier because leaving the ground was not voluntary but was due to contact by an opponent."

[Grant - AR]

#3.  This is a touchdown per 2009 Play Situation #2 play 10.  "By interpretation runner remains ball carrier because leaving the ground was not voluntary but was due to contact by an opponent."

Thank you, Hondo.    I knew this was correct, but I couldn't remember where I had read it. 

[NVFOA_Ump]

If the ball did actually penetrate the goal line before the runner was OB then both 2 and 3 are TD's.  I read the post to say in 2 & 3 that the ball did not cross, but the runner did.  The "related to all" at the beginning of my post is the two applicable rules.  If the ball crosses before either the runner or the ball is OB then we have a TD.

[Lux]

If a runner goes airborne on his own, he must get the ball inside the pylon to score.  If he is contacted in a way that makes him go airborne, he does not have to get the ball inside and will be afforded the goal line extended.

[Kalle]

See Rom's latest mini missive on this. The 2010 version is not yet online, so if you aren't on his distribution list (shame on you!), you need to use the 2009 one, which seems to be identical in content, if not in actual play situations. http://members.atlantic.net/~gilbertr/p-0915.htm The relevant rules are 2-11-2 and 4-2-4-e, read the language of 4-2-4-e carefully.

There seems to be some high level disagreement on some plays, so stay tuned for a NCAA bulletin play situation to resolve it.

[chymechowder]

So if A80 is running down the right sideline and gets drilled at an angle at the B4--drilled so hard that he goes airborne, crossing the sideline at the B4, and landing 5 yards outside and 1 yard beyond the pylon....you're saying it's a touchdown?  Really? 

Has anyone ever called that a touchdown???

AR 8-2-1-IV says no TD. Because the ball carrier is airborne. Nothing in there about how or why he became airborne.

Granted, 4-2-4-e says "dives or jumps," but I think it's a stretch to infer that if the defense lauches him over the sideline, he still gets credit for his airborne forward progress. 

If that's the case, maybe it should be changed to: "When a ball carrier dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline."

[JasonTX]

So if A80 is running down the right sideline and gets drilled at an angle at the B4--drilled so hard that he goes airborne, crossing the sideline at the B4, and landing 5 yards outside and 1 yard beyond the pylon....you're saying it's a touchdown?  Really? 

Has anyone ever called that a touchdown???

AR 8-2-1-IV says no TD. Because the ball carrier is airborne. Nothing in there about how or why he became airborne.

Granted, 4-2-4-e says "dives or jumps," but I think it's a stretch to infer that if the defense lauches him over the sideline, he still gets credit for his airborne forward progress. 

If that's the case, maybe it should be changed to: "When a ball carrier dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborne as he crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline."

See the bulletin play that Hondo posted.  2009 Play Situation #2 play 10.  This is on the NCAA website linked here. http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/rules/football/2009/10-092009PlaySituationsNo.2.pdf

[chymechowder]

10. Ball carrier A22 is running near the sideline in an attempt to score. At the B-1 he is hit, the contact causing him to leave the ground such that the ball passes across the goal line extended outside the pylon. A22 lands out of bounds beyond the goal line extended.

RULING: Touchdown. By interpretation A22 is considered a ball carrier because his leaving the ground was not voluntary but was due to contact by an opponent. (2-11-2, 4-2-4-e, 8-2-1-a)

Wow. It's there in black and white, but I must admit that it seems....odd, to say the least.

Would the same interpretation apply to a ball carrier trying to get a first down?  3rd and 10 at the A40. At the A48, ball carrier is knocked airborne over the sideline, coming to the ground with the ball beyond the front stake.

By the memo's interpretation, do we have a first down? Granted, the rules don't say that regular (non-goal) lines extend beyond the sidelines, but the emphasis in the interpretation seems to be on the involuntary nature of the ball carrier's "airborne-ness." 

I don't mean to suggest that the interpretation is wrong, but has anyone called this a TD?

I'm imagining a 4th and goal play where A22 gets drilled at the 2 yardline, comes to rest at the linesman's feet (well outside the pylon), and the linesman signals TD. (Then runs for his life from a pitchfork- and torch-wielding Team B coaching staff.  )

[Kalle]

Would the same interpretation apply to a ball carrier trying to get a first down?  3rd and 10 at the A40. At the A48, ball carrier is knocked airborne over the sideline, coming to the ground with the ball beyond the front stake.

By the memo's interpretation, do we have a first down? Granted, the rules don't say that regular (non-goal) lines extend beyond the sidelines, but the emphasis in the interpretation seems to be on the involuntary nature of the ball carrier's "airborne-ness." 

I think the rules are very clear on this. First, rules 4-2-4-d and -e say that the progress is awarded at the most forward point of the ball when the ball becomes dead, if the airborne ball carrier does not go OOB voluntarily. Then, rule 5-1-1-b says that we are to award team A a new series if the forward progress point is beyond the LTG.