Author Topic: What's the ruling  (Read 5999 times)

Offline Bugolathe

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What's the ruling
« on: August 15, 2010, 09:12:58 PM »
4 & 10 at the K 20 yardline. K is in scrimmage kick formation.
After the kick crosses the ENZ R-1 holds K-1 at the K 35 yardline. 
After the hold, K-2 touches the ball at the K 45 yardline. 
The ball rolls to the R 48 yard line where it is downed by K-3.
What is the ruling?
Any help on this would be appreciated.

Offline Rob S

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2010, 11:19:36 PM »
Since the hold by R occurs beyond the ENZ while the kick in still in progress, we have PSK enforcement.  The basic spot is where the kick ends, so enforce 10 yards from R-48 yard line.  R will put ball into play at their 38. 

Just for completeness, if for some reason K declines the penalty, R can take the ball at the spot of first touching (K-45 yard line).  However, this spot of first touching is canceled for any accepted foul during the down.  6-2-5  (I had to check out this last part as I didn't realize any accepted penalty did this, I thought it was only if R fouled after the first touching)

Offline blandis

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 06:38:54 PM »
First touching by K is ignored for spotting the ball if any foul is accepted on the kick.

Offline Bugolathe

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 11:36:06 AM »
Since the hold by R occurs beyond the ENZ while the kick in still in progress, we have PSK enforcement.  The basic spot is where the kick ends, so enforce 10 yards from R-48 yard line.  R will put ball into play at their 38. 

Just for completeness, if for some reason K declines the penalty, R can take the ball at the spot of first touching (K-45 yard line).  However, this spot of first touching is canceled for any accepted foul during the down.  6-2-5  (I had to check out this last part as I didn't realize any accepted penalty did this, I thought it was only if R fouled after the first touching)

Thanks Rob,  after considering several sources including our state director of football, your ruling is correct.  To me it doesn't seem fair because the FT could take the ball all the way to the 1 yd. line where the penalty would be assesed.

LarryW60

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 11:50:29 AM »
Fair to whom?  If R lets the ball get all the way to the 1 before being touched by K, then R has given up 99% of the field whether there's a penalty or not.

Offline Bugolathe

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 02:20:02 PM »
Fair to whom?  If R lets the ball get all the way to the 1 before being touched by K, then R has given up 99% of the field whether there's a penalty or not.

R fouls, then FT by K at the K 45 yardline.  The FT causes a huge bounce and the ball goes all the way to the 1 yardline where it is downed by K.  R may not have had a chance to get to it because of the FT.  Ruling says that the penalty is assessed from the 1.  1 & 10 at the 1/2 yardline. Fair?

Why can't the penalty be assessed from the FT or the foul (whichever is further back?)  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 09:07:51 AM by Bugolathe »

Offline Jackhammer

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 03:46:34 PM »
R fouls, then FT by K at the K 45 yardline.  The FT causes a huge bounce and the ball goes all the way to the 1 yardline where it is downed by K.  R may not have had a chance to get to it because of the FT.  Ruling says that the penalty is assessed from the 1.  1 & 10 at the 1/2 yardline. Fair?

Why can the penalty be assessed from the FT or the foul (whichever is further back?)  
Bug,
This suggests a potential foul by K in this hypothetical situation.  If R is not trying to catch the thing and the bounce is inadvertent, it really doesn't matter how it bounces....it just as easily could bounce the other way.  The lesson to R here is....Don't foul
"The only whistle that kills a play is an inadvertent one"

"The only thing black and white in officiating is the uniform"

KFox1979

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 12:02:43 AM »
R fouls, then FT by K at the K 45 yardline.  The FT causes a huge bounce and the ball goes all the way to the 1 yardline where it is downed by K.  R may not have had a chance to get to it because of the FT.  Ruling says that the penalty is assessed from the 1.  1 & 10 at the 1/2 yardline. Fair?

Why can the penalty be assessed from the FT or the foul (whichever is further back?)  

First... R had the opportunity to catch the ball.
Second... Remember first touching is just touching not an illegal kick or illegal batting.
Third.... R shouldn't foul.


LarryW60

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 09:24:09 AM »
If K's "first touching" sends the ball 34 yards further down field, I'm looking hard at a possible illegal bat.  I know K can bat the ball back towards their own goal line, but not towards R's.  Of course, if the touching was inadvertent then it would be hard to call illegal batting.

waltjp

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 11:31:09 PM »
If K's "first touching" sends the ball 34 yards further down field, I'm looking hard at a possible illegal bat.  I know K can bat the ball back towards their own goal line, but not towards R's.  Of course, if the touching was inadvertent then it would be hard to call illegal batting.

Maybe the K player who touched the ball has a really hard head.

LarryW60

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Re: What's the ruling
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2010, 02:58:09 PM »
But travelling 34 yards seems impossible just from a random carom.  (Now that I've said that, someone will post a video showing that exact thing.) pi1eOn