Author Topic: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL  (Read 14360 times)

Offline TXMike

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"Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« on: October 21, 2010, 06:12:18 AM »
According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability"  .  He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules.  Wonder if that is what he told the schools cause  many of the coaches seem to think it is a lot more than that.

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 08:19:20 AM »
According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability"  .  He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules.  Wonder if that is what he told the schools cause  many of the coaches seem to think it is a lot more than that.

 ^flag

TXMike: It is all too apparent that the  tiphat: Good UIL Dr. has told so many versions of so many stories to so many people, that a seasoned stenographer with a tape-recorder would exercise extreme difficulty in attempting to keep up with him!   z^

Offline TexDoc

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 08:25:44 AM »
UIL has made it abundantly clear that their version of "accountability" is the UIL having the ability to punish or call out officials, and offer to the coaches a road to complain about officials.

Offline TXMike

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 08:32:13 AM »
Apparently not something they chose to share with the judge yesterday

Offline TxJim

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 01:02:47 PM »
According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability"  .  He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules. 
...Good UIL Dr. has told so many versions of so many stories to so many people...

This is excellent news!
Sportsmanship is contagious - Let's have an epidemic!

Offline QAfta

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 02:12:15 PM »
  He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules. 

So did anyone get to say, umm judge they already do this?  Online tests and our renewal form at the end of the year? 

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2010, 09:17:58 AM »
 ^flag

Got word that one of our posters who just happens to work for a rather large Harris County school district got his chops busted by that particular school district for posting on here why it was that he was being compelled to register with the UIL. Seems like he was forced to offer written apologies not only to his employing school district, but also to the  tiphat: UIL Circus Ringmaster and his :!# Hurdy-Gurdy Jumper, as well as the rest of the crowd over there on Manor Road!

Now that's what I'd call "accountability!" Or would plain old "vindictiveness" be a more appropriate moniker?   z^
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 09:23:25 AM by arbitrator »

Offline Welpe

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 11:48:52 AM »
^flag

Got word that one of our posters who just happens to work for a rather large Harris County school district got his chops busted by that particular school district for posting on here why it was that he was being compelled to register with the UIL. Seems like he was forced to offer written apologies not only to his employing school district, but also to the  tiphat: UIL Circus Ringmaster and his :!# Hurdy-Gurdy Jumper, as well as the rest of the crowd over there on Manor Road!

Now that's what I'd call "accountability!" Or would plain old "vindictiveness" be a more appropriate moniker?   z^

Wow!  I get enough of this type of garbage at work, maybe I will just take up golf instead.  :!#

Offline Etref

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 04:18:32 PM »
Well my boss agrees with me that the UIL is over steeping it's bounds and he agrees with my decision not to register.


Of course I am self employed so I have a sympathetic ear. It ashame that HISD is jacking with him
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Offline Mark Liggett

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2010, 08:14:48 PM »
According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability"  .  He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules.  Wonder if that is what he told the schools cause  many of the coaches seem to think it is a lot more than that.

Here are notes that were taken by a courtroom observer....  thank you Mr. Courtroom Observer!


[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Welpe

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2010, 09:02:04 PM »
This is rather telling, isn't it?

"Mr. Fitch was asked about the UIL monitoring TASO communications; Mr. Fitch relayed
a conference call with vendors in which one vendor was late and stayed on after the call
to discuss with Mr. Fitch; during the after call, a person entered the call; at the end of the
conference call, Mr. Fitch received a report showing who had attended the call, and the
number for Mr. Tony Timmons appeared on the report as being on the call for 26
minutes, the duration of the post call with the vendor; during the follow up call, the
vendor was asking specific TASO/UIL questions; while no proof it was Mr. Timmons on
the call, it is a number registered to Mr. Timmons; this is another example of the coercion
and underhanded tactics of the UIL"

Offline blindref757

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2010, 09:18:42 PM »
I would like to testify on behalf of one of the chapters who supposedly went "renegade" on the old 1204.  I had a direct hand in the flat rate that Tyler Basketball chapter was charging from 2004 til present.  This was done within the guidelines of 1204 at the time and was a win-win for us and the schools.  They got a fixed budget (including mileage), and we no longer got screwed on mythical gate revenue.  Sometimes we lost on mileage, and sometimes we won.  But the schools could budget their expenses with a fixed number.  Everyone was happy...I seriously doubt that any of our schools complained.  If they did, they never brought it to the attention of our secretary or our president.

All of this legal wrangling is supposedly over the UIL's inability to sanction chapters who didn't go by 1204.  Yet during all of this time, the Tyler basketball chapter was awarded multiple regional and state tournament assignments.

The judge needs to know this!

WABill

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2010, 09:20:52 PM »
I would like to testify on behalf of one of the chapters who supposedly went "renegade" on the old 1204.  I had a direct hand in the flat rate that Tyler Basketball chapter was charging from 2004 til present.  This was done within the guidelines of 1204 at the time and was a win-win for us and the schools.  They got a fixed budget (including mileage), and we no longer got screwed on mythical gate revenue.  Sometimes we lost on mileage, and sometimes we won.  But the schools could budget their expenses with a fixed number.  Everyone was happy...I seriously doubt that any of our schools complained.  If they did, they never brought it to the attention of our secretary or our president.

All of this legal wrangling is supposedly over the UIL's inability to sanction chapters who didn't go by 1204.  Yet during all of this time, the Tyler basketball chapter was awarded multiple regional and state tournament assignments.

The judge needs to know this!
I am sure that the right individuals will read this and know what to do with the info.

WABill

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2010, 09:50:51 PM »
This is rather telling, isn't it?

"Mr. Fitch was asked about the UIL monitoring TASO communications; Mr. Fitch relayed
a conference call with vendors in which one vendor was late and stayed on after the call
to discuss with Mr. Fitch; during the after call, a person entered the call; at the end of the
conference call, Mr. Fitch received a report showing who had attended the call, and the
number for Mr. Tony Timmons appeared on the report as being on the call for 26
minutes, the duration of the post call with the vendor; during the follow up call, the
vendor was asking specific TASO/UIL questions; while no proof it was Mr. Timmons on
the call, it is a number registered to Mr. Timmons; this is another example of the coercion
and underhanded tactics of the UIL"

Sadly, this is what I have come to expect from Mr. Timmons.  Hard to believe that a grown man with over 12 years of officiating experience acts so childish.  Thankfully, I have seen his videos to prove he is, as the judge stated, hopeless childish.

Offline jeffreff

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2010, 11:15:15 PM »
I would like to testify on behalf of one of the chapters who supposedly went "renegade" on the old 1204.  I had a direct hand in the flat rate that Tyler Basketball chapter was charging from 2004 til present.  This was done within the guidelines of 1204 at the time and was a win-win for us and the schools.  They got a fixed budget (including mileage), and we no longer got screwed on mythical gate revenue.  Sometimes we lost on mileage, and sometimes we won.  But the schools could budget their expenses with a fixed number.  Everyone was happy...I seriously doubt that any of our schools complained.  If they did, they never brought it to the attention of our secretary or our president.

All of this legal wrangling is supposedly over the UIL's inability to sanction chapters who didn't go by 1204.  Yet during all of this time, the Tyler basketball chapter was awarded multiple regional and state tournament assignments.

The judge needs to know this!



Is this the same chapter that has fraud charges from State of Texas filed against it and is in complete turmoil and has replaced their board of directors? Seems about right. Just keep those plumb playoff games coming and we will just change the flavor of the kool-aide.

Offline blindref757

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 07:05:09 AM »
I haven't been a member of this chapter in 2 years...so I'm not 100% on the details of recent activity.  But I know for a fact it used to be run a lot differently. 

But the point is that the UIL had ample opportunity to sanction us and didn't.  Why?  Because the "schools" weren't complaining.  The schools who complained were a handful of baseball schools.  If the UIL had responded by looking at how rotten the pay was for rural baseball games that didn't charge spectators and only paid minimum game fees, they could have avoided all of this.  They would not listen to our problems--so now they have all of this on their hands.  Both sides are at fault.  Sadly, we are way beyond an easy fix.  But the bottom line is that the UIL didn't flex their muscle.  If Baseball had walked out 2 years ago, the problem would have been solved quickly.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2010, 01:06:35 PM »
I haven't been a member of this chapter in 2 years...so I'm not 100% on the details of recent activity.  But I know for a fact it used to be run a lot differently. 

But the point is that the UIL had ample opportunity to sanction us and didn't.  Why?  Because the "schools" weren't complaining.  The schools who complained were a handful of baseball schools.  If the UIL had responded by looking at how rotten the pay was for rural baseball games that didn't charge spectators and only paid minimum game fees, they could have avoided all of this.  They would not listen to our problems--so now they have all of this on their hands.  Both sides are at fault.  Sadly, we are way beyond an easy fix.  But the bottom line is that the UIL didn't flex their muscle.  If Baseball had walked out 2 years ago, the problem would have been solved quickly.

  All this proves my point that this is not a UIL "registration" or regulation issue, but a supply and demand issue.  The UIL does not need to register officials to ensure compliance with 1204 by its member schools.  All the UIL needs to do it tell its member schools to pay 1204 rates.   At that point, officials of all sports across the state can make the economic decision whether to call ball games or not for the amount offered.  Simple supply and demand.  If officials will not call for the price offered, there will be a shortage.  Registering officials does not change this equation.  If there is a shortage, prices will rise.  If rates paid for games rise, the supply of officials willing to accept those games will rise.

Offline Etref

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2010, 07:16:26 PM »
  All this proves my point that this is not a UIL "registration" or regulation issue, but a supply and demand issue.  The UIL does not need to register officials to ensure compliance with 1204 by its member schools.  All the UIL needs to do it tell its member schools to pay 1204 rates.   At that point, officials of all sports across the state can make the economic decision whether to call ball games or not for the amount offered.  Simple supply and demand.  If officials will not call for the price offered, there will be a shortage.  Registering officials does not change this equation.  If there is a shortage, prices will rise.  If rates paid for games rise, the supply of officials willing to accept those games will rise.


That my friend is the entire matter in one concise paragraph................................................
" I don't make the rules coach!"

FW Official

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2010, 11:51:04 PM »
Well, sort of...

No one will call the Freshman games as all of the wanna-be head coaches will be there expressing their discontent at officiating trying to make a name for themselves.

But every official will want a varsity game, regardless of the pay.

The system is broke.  TASO and the UIL don't want to admit it, but that's where the breakdown exists.

Sell your soul for a 5A varsity game.  To HECK with the 2A and even 5A JV games.

Of course that doesn't even address the 90 mile one way drive for a 8-JV six-man assignment on Thursday.

Offline Etref

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 08:24:49 AM »
Well, sort of...

No one will call the Freshman games as all of the wanna-be head coaches will be there expressing their discontent at officiating trying to make a name for themselves.

But every official will want a varsity game, regardless of the pay.

The system is broke.  TASO and the UIL don't want to admit it, but that's where the breakdown exists.

Sell your soul for a 5A varsity game.  To HECK with the 2A and even 5A JV games.

Of course that doesn't even address the 90 mile one way drive for a 8-JV six-man assignment on Thursday.


I am not sure of exactly what you say is broken. But I can tell you that not every official will "sell" their soul for a 5A game. I believe that most of the officials in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and other places were perfectly willing to not work their 5A games on week 10 had the deadline not have been moved.
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline mobetta285

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2010, 04:19:13 PM »
I was prepared for the lockout, as was my whole crew. It matters not to us what class level the game is, it's about the camaraderie with the crew and the love of the game itself.

Austinref

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 01:59:29 AM »


Is this the same chapter (Tyler) that has fraud charges from State of Texas filed against it and is in complete turmoil and has replaced their board of directors? Seems about right. Just keep those plumb playoff games coming and we will just change the flavor of the kool-aide.

This is the same chapter and I heard this morning from a Ft. Worth official that the IRS is now involved. Blindref, I agree with what you guys did and if it benefited both the schools and the officials, then that is great. Too bad that this type of thing can't be promoted more across the state.

And speaking of the Tyler Board (Basketball), I understand that the original board is still in place. It has not been replaced.

GameWillTravel

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2010, 08:58:06 AM »
Yes the board is the same. Not sure about the other s**t that your spewing out of your mouth. Big A

Offline bbarn01

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2010, 12:25:17 AM »
Yes the board is the same. Not sure about the other s**t that your spewing out of your mouth. Big A

Talk about drinking the Kool Aid and living in denial. Austin, I am not sure who you spoke to in Ft. Worth, but the current board is in place minus 1. The president of the board sent a letter to the rest of the board saying that he would not be running for re-election. GameWillTravel, I now know you are so if you want the facts, call me. I promise you, the facts do not contain the Kool Aid that is being served to the rest of the chapter.

Offline bbarn01

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Re: "Accountability" in the Eyes of the UIL
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2010, 12:47:10 AM »
As for accountability......Lets ask the first question: Why didn't TASO do a better job of making sure that only officials in good standing worked UIL games? Why didn't TASO do a better job of finding a system to promote the best officials instead of letting the good old boy system rule the process? When the UIL started looking for answers in 2006 as to why the system was flawwed and why officiating in Texas was slipping (especially in basketball and baseball), why did TASO immediatly blame the UIL for all of the problems?

Now I'll grant you, the coordinators for each sport who by the way selected the officials for the various contests charged to them are just as much to blame for the breakdown as TASO and the UIL has corrected the problems on their end and they have repeatedly asked TASO to do the same thing. It took the higher ups to enforce their feelings to the UIL that something needed to change . . . . . that Texas needed to be doing things better than any other state organization in the United States.

So this is where we are at. There does not need to be anymore state boards with all of the animosity and egos dealing with the UIL. The Executive Director needs to be the one handling all negotiations with the UIL. If he is not doing that either because of a breakdown in communication with the UIL, or his inability to effectively communicate with Timmons, then perhaps the President of each board and either Cliff Odenwald or Dr. Charles Breithaupt should sit down and work out a compromise where TASO is allowed to maintain football and co-exist with the UIL.