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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: BetweenTheLines on April 23, 2021, 07:05:00 AM

Title: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: BetweenTheLines on April 23, 2021, 07:05:00 AM
Does anyone know if there will be anything else coming out besides the low block changes?
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: Ralph Damren on April 23, 2021, 07:47:11 AM
That's the only rule change this year. Normally we vote on 40-50 proposals per year. This was NOT a normal year and only 8 were proposed with the BBW modification being the only one that passed. As always, there will 3 new POEs but I haven't been advised as to what they will be.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: KWH on April 27, 2021, 02:50:05 PM

Confucius say: The three POE's from 2020 will remain the POE's for 2021,  however, they will be enhanced, clarified and expanded upon!!!

And remember...
As that famous Chinese spokesman "Kung Foo" once said, "Never argue with Confucius!"   :!#
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: bama_stripes on April 28, 2021, 07:06:41 AM
That's the only rule change this year. Normally we vote on 40-50 proposals per year. This was NOT a normal year and only 8 were proposed with the BBW modification being the only one that passed. As always, there will 3 new POEs but I haven't been advised as to what they will be.

How about editorial changes?  Seems like this would have been a good year to clean up a lot of the errors and ambiguities in the books.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: Ralph Damren on April 28, 2021, 09:40:04 AM
How about editorial changes?  Seems like this would have been a good year to clean up a lot of the errors and ambiguities in the books.
The Editorial Committee handles editorial changes and am not on or privy to that.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: KWH on April 30, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
How about editorial changes?  Seems like this would have been a good year to clean up a lot of the errors and ambiguities in the books.

Can you provide an error or ambiguity example?
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: BetweenTheLines on May 03, 2021, 11:47:32 AM
 This may fall under the term ambiguous: This was tossed around last year here, 6-2-5. The right of R to take the (ball at spot) of first touching by K is canceled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul or if the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down.
First of all, ball at spot is terrible English. Secondly and primarily, what if there is an accepted penalty for sideline with contact interference, (9-4-8) or some other penalty treated as a  dead ball foul (unsportsmanlike)? The rule states ANY. Somehow fouls during the down treated as dead ball fouls need to be excluded. Please excuse my English!!!
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: AlUpstateNY on May 03, 2021, 03:50:47 PM
This may fall under the term ambiguous: This was tossed around last year here, 6-2-5. The right of R to take the (ball at spot) of first touching by K is canceled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul or if the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down.
First of all, ball at spot is terrible English. Secondly and primarily, what if there is an accepted penalty for sideline with contact interference, (9-4-8) or some other penalty treated as a  dead ball foul (unsportsmanlike)? The rule states ANY. Somehow fouls during the down treated as dead ball fouls need to be excluded. Please excuse my English!!!

NFHS 6-2-5 states, "The right of R to take the ball at the spot of first touching by K is cancelled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul or if the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down.", suggesting the reference is to "live ball fouls", alone.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: GA Umpire on May 08, 2021, 04:01:39 PM
That's the only rule change this year. Normally we vote on 40-50 proposals per year. This was NOT a normal year and only 8 were proposed with the BBW modification being the only one that passed. As always, there will 3 new POEs but I haven't been advised as to what they will be.

Guys:
Here is a link to the POEs posted on the GHSA web site.  I do not know if they match the NFHS POEs. 

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-football-season-points-emphasis-details
 
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: CalhounLJ on May 08, 2021, 08:05:58 PM
This may fall under the term ambiguous: This was tossed around last year here, 6-2-5. The right of R to take the (ball at spot) of first touching by K is canceled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul or if the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down.
First of all, ball at spot is terrible English. Secondly and primarily, what if there is an accepted penalty for sideline with contact interference, (9-4-8) or some other penalty treated as a  dead ball foul (unsportsmanlike)? The rule states ANY. Somehow fouls during the down treated as dead ball fouls need to be excluded. Please excuse my English!!!
Iím not sure these fouls need to be excluded. R still has the opportunity to decide whether to take the ball at the spot of first touching or the penalty, whichever is better, same as with any old ordinary live ball foul.


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Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: AlUpstateNY on May 08, 2021, 08:26:13 PM
Guys:
Here is a link to the POEs posted on the GHSA web site.  I do not know if they match the NFHS POEs. 

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-football-season-points-emphasis-details

Thank you for the link to the 2021 NFHS POE details.  I don't see anything dramatically new in the 2021 comments.  They simply underscore what has, or at least has long been effective procedures, but serve to codify what have been somewhat common misbehaviors  that been considered consequential as determined by the severity of, and specific situation related to each infraction, as determined by the covering official.

Football remains a hotly contested physical challenge that MUST remain subject to overall sportsmanship, civility and respect among ALL participants, in all circumstances worthy of periodic reminders.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: BetweenTheLines on May 10, 2021, 07:57:05 AM
 So K punts and first touches the ball and then R picks up the ball and subsequently fumbles and K ends up with it. During the play R had committed a non player foul as described (sideline interference with contact). Soooo R will not get the ball. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: CalhounLJ on May 10, 2021, 08:01:12 AM
Correct. But they don't deserve it because they fouled. A foul trumps first touching. As it should be.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: BetweenTheLines on May 10, 2021, 08:03:04 AM
I should rearrange the previous case play to state they fouled after R touched it.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: CalhounLJ on May 10, 2021, 08:09:55 AM
in that case first touching goes away because R is the one who committed the foul after touching the ball. Same result. It's not K's fault R fouled.
"first touching by K is canceled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul"
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: KWH on May 11, 2021, 12:23:24 PM
Guys:
Here is a link to the POEs posted on the GHSA web site.  I do not know if they match the NFHS POEs. 

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-football-season-points-emphasis-details

Uh, Sorry but These are NOT the NFHS POE's! Rather, This was something coined in Georgia!
This directs the reader to believe that ANY violation of 9-8 is charged to the Head Coach.
If you read 9-8 Penalty section,  please note the only fouls that are charged directly to the Head Coach (which were not committed by the Head Coach) are Arts. 1g, 1h, 1k and 3
Any and all other fouls are charged directly to the offending individual and NOT the Head Coach.

The rule which charged everything to the head coach changed over twenty some years ago allowing us to punish the offending individual rather than the Head Coach.
Title: Re: Any More Rule Changes?
Post by: CalhounLJ on May 14, 2021, 06:40:23 AM
Uh, Sorry but These are NOT the NFHS POE's! Rather, This was something coined in Georgia!
This directs the reader to believe that ANY violation of 9-8 is charged to the Head Coach.
If you read 9-8 Penalty section,  please note the only fouls that are charged directly to the Head Coach (which were not committed by the Head Coach) are Arts. 1g, 1h, 1k and 3
Any and all other fouls are charged directly to the offending individual and NOT the Head Coach.

The rule charged everything to the head coach changed over twenty some years ago allowing us to punish the offending individual rather than the Head Coach.
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