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NCAA Discussion / Re: S/B Quiz 2
« Last post by Rob S on June 13, 2021, 03:25:31 PM »
7. 1/10 @ B-30. (Assuming A44 is the ball carrier) A44 runs to the B-23 where B54 sticks out a foot and intentionally uses the lower leg to obstruct A44 below the knee. A44 goes down at the B-22.
RULING: A, 1/G, B-11, ready (25). Foul for tripping (even the BC may not be tripped). The 15-yard penalty is enforced from the end of the run (B-22), taking the ball to the B-11, with a first down.

Agree, except 1/10, not 1/G from the B-11.
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I’ll vote for it just to clear up the confusion.


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Quote
“but he was outside the tackle box.”

Given the last rule change questionnaire, I fear it is coming sooner than later.
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9 out of 10 coaches think it does......  :sTiR:
Playoff game last year, QB rolled out and dumped a pass oob because nobody was open. *flag.*. Coach: “but he was outside the tackle box.”



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General Discussion / Re: Stadium Field Mics
« Last post by CalhounLJ on June 13, 2021, 09:03:36 AM »
 Not trying to be sarcastic or cute,  but when you’re dealing with electronics and communication, you really do get what you pay for. You might find something really cheap out there, but I guarantee you wouldn’t be satisfied with it.


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Don't bring "tackle box" into the equation.  It doesn't exist in NFHS.

9 out of 10 coaches think it does......  :sTiR:
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Don't make this harder than it is.  The FBZ doesn't last that long, particularly in today's shotgun and pistol spread formations.  As Al mentioned, everyone but the BJ has some LOS responsibility.   Once the ball has left the zone, the zone is gone and BBW is no longer legal.  Think initial charge and block.  Wings will be keying their OT to read run or block so they can pick up their initial action.
If A is in normal splits, the TE is usually in the zone.  Any part of him that is in the zone puts him in the FBZ.

Don't bring "tackle box" into the equation.  It doesn't exist in NFHS.
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A question about blocking below the waist mechanics  - NFHS 5 & 4 man crews - who is responsible for knowing which offensive players are lined up on the LOS and in the FBZ at the snap? Is there any set philosophy other than eye-balling it? The R can align himself 4 yards from the ball laterally if the TE is on the same side as him, but what if he isn’t? Also, the R’s key is the opposite tackle. The wings, and the BJ depending on the formation, can see the TE's initial block, but they would not necessarily know if the TE was in the FBZ.

The NFHS GOM addresses the U knowing the B players on the LOS and in the FBZ, but doesn't seem to address A.  The R has the best look at the A player splits and determining who is in the FBZ.

NFHS: 2-17-1 defines the FBZ as, "laterally 4yards either side of the spot of the snap & 3 yds behind each LOS".  Everybody (except the BJ) shares some responsibility for for the LOS & FBZ.  R probably has the best view of the depth of the FBZ, which is why they recommend his position 10-15 yds behind the LOS.  Understanding that "all hell breaks loose" with the snap, their are different focuses, the U is facing the O line, so along with a lot of other concerns he's focused on the target area.  Both wing officials start out with observing the line responsibilities, so BBW falls into their field of vision as well, so responsibility for knowing who's in the zone at the snap, where this "imaginary" zone starts and ends (on each play) requires a collective coverage effort.

It's often difficult to remember, BBW & the FBZ prohibitions extends to D-players as well, who seem to be willing to target & eliminate the O-Blockers rather than concentrate on the runners.  You can only see what you see which is why 2, 3, 4 sets of eyes are better than 1.   
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A question about blocking below the waist mechanics  - NFHS 5 & 4 man crews - who is responsible for knowing which offensive players are lined up on the LOS and in the FBZ at the snap? Is there any set philosophy other than eye-balling it? The R can align himself 4 yards from the ball laterally if the TE is on the same side as him, but what if he isn’t? Also, the R’s key is the opposite tackle. The wings, and the BJ depending on the formation, can see the TE's initial block, but they would not necessarily know if the TE was in the FBZ.

My understanding is NCAA has a “tackle box” - the 2 players on either side of the snapper determine the BACKWARD PASS dimension of the tackle box. Everyone else is not. This sets up a definitive determination as to who can block whom below the waist.

The NFHS GOM addresses the U knowing the B players on the LOS and in the FBZ, but doesn't seem to address A.  The R has the best look at the A player splits and determining who is in the FBZ.

Any further thoughts on this are appreciated.
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NCAA Discussion / S/B Quiz 2
« Last post by ElvisLives on June 11, 2021, 11:06:52 PM »
Here are what I got:

1. After a Touchdown and successful 2 point try, Team A trails 24 – 22 with 0:55 left in the 4th quarter. Team A intends to try an on-side free kick from the A-35. Kicker A90 holds the ball as if he will attempt a drop kick. A90 then tosses the ball up in the air and the ball bounces just behind Team A’s restraining line and then A90 kicks the ball after it bounces several feet into the air.
RULING: A, F/K, A-30, Free Kick Rules (25). Illegal Kick; ball does not become alive, and penalty is 5 yards from the succeeding spot.

2. 3/10 @ B-30. A12, late in the second period, runs to the B-25 and throws a backward pass out of bounds to conserve time. The ball lands out of bounds at the B-27. The clock is stopped at 1:01 when the pass hit out of bounds.
RULING: A, 4/10, B-30, ready (25). Illegal pass to conserve time. After 5-yard penalty with LOD from the spot of the pass, the game clock will start on the referee’s signal. There is no option for a 10-second subtraction, since the foul occurred with more than 0:59 in the second period.
 

3. 3/10 @ A-10. QB A12 retreats into the end zone and then passes forward to ineligible A70 who, while in his end zone, catches the pass and is downed after having advanced to the three-yard line. All eligible receivers had released downfield.
RULING: A, 4/17, A-3, ready (25). Illegal touching. The 5 yard penalty penalty from the previous spot would place the ball at the A-5, and the down would be repeated. Team B will clearly decline the penalty.
It is a stretch, but, if the passer is throwing the ball to conserve yardage, i.e., he is under duress, a ruling of intentional grounding is possible. In that case, the result of the penalty would be a safety, 2 points for B, with a Free Kick from the A-20 to follow. Depending on time and score, Team B might still decline the penalty, to potentially get better field position after a probable 4th down punt.
 

4. 3/10 @ B-15. QB A12 rolls out and throws to the back of the end zone to A88. A88, just inside the end line jumps high into the air and gains firm control of the ball while airborne. A88 would have returned to the ground inbounds, but B44 makes legal contact with A88 and pushes A88 over the end line and A88 lands just outside of the field of play and maintains complete control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.
RULING: A, 4/10, B-15, snap (40 and running). Incomplete forward pass. An airborne player must return to the ground inbounds OR be so HELD that he can’t return to the ground to complete a catch. In this case, he is blocked out of bounds before returning to the ground. This is simply an incomplete pass.
 
5. 2/5 @ B-20. Fourth quarter with the game clock running. Tackle B77 is in the neutral zone at the snap but does not make contact. QB A12 rolls out to pass, runs to the B-17 and throws a forward pass, which falls incomplete. The game clock reads 0:15 after the play.
RULING: A, 2/5, B-20, snap (25). The offside foul and the illegal forward pass foul offset, and the down is repeated at the previous spot. There is no adjustment to the clock.

6. 3/1 @ A-34. After the ball is ready for play, the Center Judge (or Umpire) is in his regular position with the game clock running. Team A quickly replaces some players with substitutes, gets set for the required one second and snaps the ball. The Center Judge (or Umpire) is attempting to get to the ball to allow the defense to match up, but he is unable to prevent the snap.
RULING: A, 3/1, A-34, ready (25). Team A may not snap the ball until Team B has had opportunity to make substitutions. The game is interrupted (no play). The ball is replaced at the succeeding spot, the play clock is set to 25 seconds, and both the play clock and the game clock will be started on the referee’s signal. Team A’s Head Coach is notified that a second occurrence of this will result in an unsportsmanlike conduct foul and penalty.

7. 1/10 @ B-30. (Assuming A44 is the ball carrier) A44 runs to the B-23 where B54 sticks out a foot and intentionally uses the lower leg to obstruct A44 below the knee. A44 goes down at the B-22.
RULING: A, 1/10, B-11, ready (25). Foul for tripping (even the BC may not be tripped). The 15-yard penalty is enforced from the end of the run (B-22), taking the ball to the B-11, with a first down.
 
8. 2/5 @ B-40. With the game clock running, snapper A54 lifts the ball before passing it backward and B50 bats the ball away. B77 recovers the ball at the B-42.
RULING: A, 2/10, B-45, ready (25). The snapper may not lift the ball before he starts the backward motion of the snap. The ball does not become alive. The 5-yard penalty for the illegal snap foul is enforced at the succeeding spot (B-40), taking the ball to the B-45, and 2nd down is continued. Team B commits no foul, since the ball was never alive. For the same reason, there is no ‘recovery’ by B.
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