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51
National Federation Discussion / Re: Punt play...what ya got?
« Last post by KWH on June 09, 2021, 11:51:45 PM »
I agree, except as has already been mentioned, we fell off that cliff with the pop-up kick..

A Pop-up kick, is by definition a Free-Kick Infraction.
A Free Kick infraction is a Dead Ball Foul.
So...........
When a pop up kick occurs, the ball, by Rule, never became live.

Therefore, Fundament IX (1) is not applicable as this fundamental only deals with Fouls while the ball is live.

Thas my story and Im stiking to it...  :sTiR:
52
National Federation Discussion / Re: Crazy play...what ya got?
« Last post by KWH on June 09, 2021, 11:35:20 PM »
I think amending the definition of PSK to exclude scrimmage place or drop kicks is the simplest fix.

Yes, you certainly could do it that way!
I can't remember why right now, (someone remind me) but, there is a good reason to keep Unsuccessful Field Goal attempts under the PSK Umbrella which is why both NCAA and NFHS actually do so and actually agree. They also both agree PSK is not applicable on Successful Field Goals, tries, or in OT.

Many NFHS teams opt to use a 4th down place kick (in lieu of a punt) as some are quite successful at kicking the ball out of bounds inside the 5 from a place kick formation. In NFHS, (for those of you eavesdropping NCAA fans), if K place kicks the ball OOB at the 1, R takes over at the 1 as per Rule 6-2-7.

Plus, by adding the wording I chose (or something similar) it would cover the late game shenanigans of time consuming, intentional fouling, (typically holding) prior to taking an intentional safety in an effort to illegally consume time.

Just a thought.  I think we both agree a change is in order. 

I might have a chat with my NC friend Mr. Mark Dreibelbis and garner his thoughts on this one.

-Hat
53
National Federation Discussion / Re: Crazy play...what ya got?
« Last post by HLinNC on June 09, 2021, 09:53:36 PM »
 I think amending the definition of PSK to exclude scrimmage place or drop kicks is the simplest fix. 
54
Baseball / Re: Run doesn't count?
« Last post by JasonTX on June 09, 2021, 09:46:39 PM »
This particular team can't do anything right.  Dude hit a solo shot home run.... And still was called out.  While he was taking a gander at his wonderfully hit ball, he failed to touch first base.  Opposing team appeals and won the appeal.
55
National Federation Discussion / Re: Crazy play...what ya got?
« Last post by KWH on June 09, 2021, 08:23:53 PM »
Is anyone for 9-9-1  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? (5-man crew) ? "....A player shall not hinder play by an unfair act which has no specific rule coverage."

IMHO,This would certainly fall under the trick play situation and coach should have clarified it with you in pre-game.
IF HE DID, MY RESPONSE WOULD BE : "COACH, that would be a foul under 9-9-1. I would then COULD award a score if I felt the kick was going to be good and tack the penalty onto the ensuing kickoff."

IF HE DIDN'T, MY RESPONSE WOULD BE :  ^flag "This unfair act has prevented a score. I'm applying rule 9-9-1 and scoring the field goal  ^good "

TO THE "EXCITED" COACH "COACH, if you had explained that to me in pre-game, I would have explained it to you THEN and prevented this foul.

While I understand the philosophy of wanting to make the penalty fit the crime,
Unfortunately,
9-9-1 can not be utilized in this situation as, because, by definition, an unfair act has no specific rules coverage.
The act in this play has Chrystal clear specific rules coverage found in 9-4-3e, AND;
9-4-3e is a Personal Foul.
This is a live ball personal foul committed by R during and before the end of the kick.
This fouls meets all the criteria listed in 2-16-2h therefore, by Rule, this is a PSK Foul.

Do I like it?  Hell no!

a) Inserting NCAA or NFL rules into the discussion of an NFHS play will NEVER resolve an NFHS issue.
Upgrading this Personal Foul to a Unsportsmanlike Foul is NEVER an option in NFHS!
This is a situation the NFHS rules committee will need to kick around! Ralph and I can and will make that happen. ^talk
However, until a rule change is made, this situation does have specific Rules coverage, and, (in as much as many of you do not want to accept it)
THIS ACT IS A PSK FOUL BY RULE
!


OK now I will get off my bar stool and say this:
Casebook Play 9.4.3 SITUATION E lists this act and properly calls it a Personal Foul. However, SITUATION E is listed under a sub-Heading of ADVANTAGE GAINED ILLEGALLY

Ralph is not wrong looking into the UNFAIR Acts section EXCEPT, unfortunately, the words Ralph is looking for are not there.
So.....
If you got a problem with the rule there is a method of changing a rule...

Perhaps the rules committee would consider adding a few words to say 9-9-5:

9-9-5...No team shall commit any act which, in the opinion of the Referee,
a) gains the offending team an advantage by committing a foul, or,
b)
tends to make a travesty of the game.

I think this might just fill several other "Holes in the Rules Book"
But if nothing else, it is certain to ruffle some feathers!


Thoughts?
56
National Federation Discussion / Re: Punt play...what ya got?
« Last post by Ralph Damren on June 09, 2021, 06:52:07 PM »
Il a legal scrimmage kick is blocked (or some how remains in or behind the NZ) and the kick has not touched the ground when K illegally kicks the ball, the status of the ball is still a kick and could meet the requirement of a fair catch.
Ya' nailed it, UMP!!! aWaRd
57
National Federation Discussion / Re: Punt play...what ya got?
« Last post by Ump33 on June 09, 2021, 05:43:03 PM »
HUMP DAY QUIZ :An illegal kick is fair caught with the free kick option....How so  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? (5-man crew)
Il a legal scrimmage kick is blocked (or some how remains in or behind the NZ) and the kick has not touched the ground when K illegally kicks the ball, the status of the ball is still a kick and could meet the requirement of a fair catch.
58
National Federation Discussion / Re: Punt play...what ya got?
« Last post by CalhounLJ on June 09, 2021, 04:56:42 PM »
HUMP DAY QUIZ :An illegal kick is fair caught with the free kick option....How so  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? (5-man crew)
Hang onů. Still scratching my headů.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
59
NCAA Discussion / Re: Batting a ball forward as a way to transfer a ball
« Last post by refbuz on June 09, 2021, 04:03:15 PM »
He suggested that batting loose ball forward on teammate as a pass is legal thing and referred to rulebook article below.
He offered first to drop a ball without throwing and then hit it with a palm forward on teammate. Technique similar to australian football except that they bat a ball in possession which is illegal in american football, thats why he decided to drop ball a little bit (fumble) first and only then hit it. According to rulebook its not a pass. It is also can be legal since intentional bat occured

Farooq, as always Rule 2 is your friend here.  2-19-1 clearly states passes must be thrown, there are no exceptions.  Dropping the ball is not throwing it. 

SECTION 19. Passes
Passing

ARTICLE 1.
Passing the ball is throwing it. A pass continues to be a pass until it is caught or intercepted by a player or the ball becomes dead.

Hope this helps.
60
National Federation Discussion / Re: Punt play...what ya got?
« Last post by Ralph Damren on June 09, 2021, 03:53:50 PM »
HUMP DAY QUIZ :An illegal kick is fair caught with the free kick option....How so  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? (5-man crew)
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