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National Federation Discussion / Re: Weird substitution plays
« Last post by bossman72 on July 26, 2021, 11:08:34 PM »
Play #1- Here's the problem with the illegal substitution.  Did the subs become players by rule?  Hard to tell if there was any communication between the oncoming players and the departing players.  I think we're better off with 9-6-4d (pretended substitution) and flag it for Illegal Participation.
 

If there wasn't communication, how would the players on the field know to leave?
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Weird substitution plays
« Last post by HLinNC on July 26, 2021, 09:09:08 PM »
Play #1- Here's the problem with the illegal substitution.  Did the subs become players by rule?  Hard to tell if there was any communication between the oncoming players and the departing players.  I think we're better off with 9-6-4d (pretended substitution) and flag it for Illegal Participation.


Play #2- Can't have encroachment, snapper didn't have his hands on the ball.  I don't consider that movement abrupt.  Hard to tell if the linemen have their hand(s) below their knees or not. 
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Weird substitution plays
« Last post by ncwingman on July 26, 2021, 07:53:10 PM »
I don't like either of those. That's absolutely substitution with the intent to deceive. If you want to give the offense a warning foul before the USC, you have two options:

The first one is definitely illegal substitution when the players on the field started off the field, then turned around and went back on (and similarly for the substitutes that came on and then turned around to leave) - violating 3-7-3.

The second one could easily be a false start on the offense. While the center hadn't placed a hand on the ball, the abrupt motion of the linemen could conceivably be simulating action at the snap (7-1-7(a)) or an action intended to cause B to encroach (7-1-7(b)).

Or just toss a USC on the coach and be done with the shenanigans.

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NCAA Discussion / Re: Fate of the Big 12
« Last post by ncwingman on July 26, 2021, 07:21:22 PM »
If they only lose two, maybe they could reform as some sort of "Big 8" conference instead...

Also, why are all the generically named conferences "Big", but no other adjectives? Why not make the 12 Large or the Great 8 or the Medium 7 or something?

I still think they should ditch all current conferences and replace them with a promotion/relegation system covering D1/D2. You'd get the "Power 5" as the "Premier League", and then the "Group of 5" as the Championship to start, and then 1-AA is League 2 and so on, but you can only move up if you win and get relegated down if you lose.

You think Boise State deserves national attention? Well, win their conference and they get promoted into the "Pac 12" and then see what happens -- meanwhile Washington State or Arizona gets demoted to the Mountain West.
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National Federation Discussion / Weird substitution plays
« Last post by zebrastripes on July 26, 2021, 06:30:20 PM »
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NCAA Discussion / Fate of the Big 12
« Last post by Etref on July 26, 2021, 05:55:24 PM »
Looks like the 12 will be going by the wayside. I know there are quite a few on here that work that Conference.
Any insights?
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Legal motion or unfair act?
« Last post by blandis on July 26, 2021, 04:22:57 PM »
There is nothing wrong with this. Now, if the QB was facing his coach and acting like he had no idea what the call was, then you'd have USC.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Uncommonly enforced rules
« Last post by CalhounLJ on July 26, 2021, 02:31:32 PM »
It's really NOT Rocket Science, but you need to understand, and be able to recognize, the difference between NFHS: 2-18 and 2-31-1.
Yes I agree. Thank you for point that out. This is precisely why I would probably rule it IFP as opposed to a forward fumble. The language “shoveled the ball” implies intentional forward motion being exerted on the ball as opposed to simply losing control. True, forward motion could be applied in a forward fumble, but not intentionally. Perhaps you could shed the light on the difference. Maybe you could help me understand it better by and by.


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National Federation Discussion / Re: Legal motion or unfair act?
« Last post by Ralph Damren on July 26, 2021, 01:24:37 PM »
In 2001, several complaints had been received nationally of trick plays involving : "Where's ..?", 'We've got the wrong ball!";etc. I was then on the Editorial Committee and authored Case 9.9.1. It's intent is to remove plays such as the OP. Kill it in pre-game if coach brings it up; if not, shut the play down & USC on the coach.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Uncommonly enforced rules
« Last post by AlUpstateNY on July 26, 2021, 09:29:38 AM »
Me too. I’d probably call it a illegal forward pass in that situation. 


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It's really NOT Rocket Science, but you need to understand, and be able to recognize, the difference between NFHS: 2-18 and 2-31-1.
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