Author Topic: UNS Taunting  (Read 658 times)

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Offline toma

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UNS Taunting
« on: May 14, 2021, 06:34:10 AM »
So in Mass we just finished up or Fall 2 season. No state championship games but there were some league championship.
Well in my game, (days after) the losing coach (49-7) is complaining of UNS on the other team. Players were making comments to two brothers on his team about their mom being a Milf.
As a crew we didn't hear it. If we did would you flag this? Clearly the usual F bombs and similar crap that goes on we jump on them.
But if overheard, should this be considered "Taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances"     

Offline CalhounLJ

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UNS Taunting
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2021, 06:38:55 AM »
So in Mass we just finished up or Fall 2 season. No state championship games but there were some league championship.
Well in my game, (days after) the losing coach (49-7) is complaining of UNS on the other team. Players were making comments to two brothers on his team about their mom being a Milf.
As a crew we didn't hear it. If we did would you flag this? Clearly the usual F bombs and similar crap that goes on we jump on them.
But if overheard, should this be considered "Taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances"   
I think just call it USC unsportsmanlike conduct for language.

Taunting is usually an “in your face, I’m better than you,” or “look at me and what I did” behavior. This must have been purely verbal or you guys would have caught it.

It really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2021, 07:02:38 AM »
I think just call it USC unsportsmanlike conduct for language.

Taunting is usually an “in your face, I’m better than you,” or “look at me and what I did” behavior. This must have been purely verbal or you guys would have caught it.

It really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.


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Absolutely agree, YOU actually hearing what was said is an important factor, but ANY comments YOU consider "profanity, insulting or vulgar language or gestures (NFHS:9-8-1) should be dealt with immediately, as YOU judge necessary (from warning, to immediate flag, to disqualification). 

"Taunting" ignored (allowed, tolerated, permitted, unaddressed) is GUARANTEED to elicit escalated response and further problem.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2021, 08:00:45 AM »
I would consider it "insulting language" and thus a USC, IF I heard it.

Offline toma

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2021, 08:10:54 AM »
Agreed we didn't hear it and I guess it happened late in the game from the coach's comments.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2021, 09:41:17 AM »
Quote
from the coach's comments.

"OK coach, we'll keep an eye out (listen) for it" is about the best you can do.

Offline oklahomaRef

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2021, 02:52:35 PM »
If I heard the comment I would definitely flag this, however we do not hear everything that is said on the field but we can make sure we are listening for it  if it is brought to our attention. This seems like they may have been using this tactic to try to get a reaction from the other team, hoping to get some kind of retaliatory action. As we have all heard in the past, the second action is usually the one that is caught and it sounds like they were trying to cause an action that could get a flag for a verbal UNC or even a punch to get an ejection to go against the other team. I can't see the logic in doing this in a game you are clearly winning, but kids are kids.

If this is brought to my attention during a game I am going to have a talk with the coach about it and let him know what I was told, let him know I did not hear it, but request he handle this so we don't have to should this action happen later. that should let him know we are listening for it, and if heard we will take our action against it  ^flag.   

Offline KWH

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 04:27:28 PM »

9-5-1a...
Baiting...words which...engender ill will.

Flag it as Ignoring this is opening Pandora's box.

UNS and let him (and all of his teammates) know, the next one will be an additional 15 and he will be disqualified!
SEE everything that you CALL, but;
Don't CALL everything you SEE!

Offline bossman72

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2021, 08:32:28 AM »
This might be unpopular, but I never flag language. Simply because this is how the sequence of events ALWAYS goes when you flag language:
A1 to B1: "F*** you IDIOT!"
*I flag it*
A1: "But he just said he f****d my sister last night! You didn't hear that?"
Me: "No..."

Then also you've set a "bar" of what language is flaggable and what isn't. "You flagged our guy for saying X, then this guy said Y and you guys didn't flag it." So you've pigeonholed yourself into a night of tit for tat game of flagging and not flagging acceptable language where the bar is basically arbitrary. Additionally, this has to be consistent among 4-7 other people on your crew, which is impossible.

Now with that being said, you don't ignore it. You have to run in and talk to the players and discourage that language and let them know that it's not acceptable.

If something not nice is said in the vicinity of the other bench and the coach complains:
(If two guys were tied up) - "Right coach, and I'm suuuuure your guy had nothing but pleasant things to say before that, right? I'm sure it was totally unprovoked."
(If it was isolated) - "Coach, your guys have said just as bad if not worse things out there today already."

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2021, 09:20:04 AM »
While I can see your logic, to me there are things that when said, will get a flag, regardless of circumstance... racial or ethnic slurs will always and forever be flagged by me, without exception.  Not having immediate consequences for that, will embolden the players to keep escalating.  I don't think I could ever explain to a coach (or supervisor) 'well, I heard A1 call B1 a /insert racial slur here/, but didn't think it warranted a flag.'

Offline HLinNC

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2021, 10:00:26 AM »
Quote
This might be unpopular, but I never flag language. Simply because this is how the sequence of events ALWAYS goes when you flag language:

Fortunately or unfortunately, our state asst. commish expects us to take care of it.  Gaining a reputation of not would not lead to long term success as an official here.  I understand your point but I look at it just as a traffic cop would.  "Yes I pulled you for doing 75 mph.  Yes I understand someone probably was doing 90.  You were the dumb one that fate ordained be caught."

No different than the hold I didn't see that everyone on the sideline behind me swears was right there in front of me.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2021, 10:26:42 AM »
Debate, with ANYBODY, is the wrong solution to take in ANY "Taunting" situation, and will only cause further, unnecessary, problems.

The "Action" YOU decide to take (a quick "Knock it off" warning, flag, disqualification) are judgments for YOU & YOU ALONE. based on what YOU actually hear & see.  Whatever lines YOU draw, to separate YOUR responses should be consistent & apply equally to both sides, as YOU determine. 

The secret is respond to ANY/EVERY instance of argument or "Trash Talking" immediately & consistently to establish the proper tone, YOU require.  However, when you sense an escalation in emotion may be developing, or preferably before the game begins, seeking the assistance of BOTH side Captains, "help control the emotions of their respective players BEFORE it may be necessary for you to get involved", can be very helpful in setting a tone that avoids problems.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 10:28:54 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline KWH

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2021, 04:48:25 PM »


Alf - Didn't you forget to hit BOLD and UNDERLINE the words ..."YOU require."   ???

That's not like you to miss those!   :puke:
SEE everything that you CALL, but;
Don't CALL everything you SEE!

Offline sczeebra

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2021, 05:33:32 PM »
Were they telling the truth?

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2021, 06:23:03 PM »

Alf - Didn't you forget to hit BOLD and UNDERLINE the words ..."YOU require."   ???

That's not like you to miss those!   :puke:
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: UNS Taunting
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2021, 07:59:37 PM »

Alf - Didn't you forget to hit BOLD and UNDERLINE the words ..."YOU require."   ???

That's not like you to miss those!   :puke:

Actually, No, YOU have no "requirement" about what may have been said, but YOU have the responsibility to "determine" the level of consequence to apply if (YOU decide) what YOU heard is worthy of consequence.  It really doesn't matter what anyone else may conclude.  I just presumed you'd understand that.

Of course, as with so many facets of "what you do/don't determine" YOU'LL have to live with whatever consequences result.