Football Officiating > National Federation Discussion

Weird substitution plays

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zebrastripes:
Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/Z1IG3lF5RNM

ncwingman:
I don't like either of those. That's absolutely substitution with the intent to deceive. If you want to give the offense a warning foul before the USC, you have two options:

The first one is definitely illegal substitution when the players on the field started off the field, then turned around and went back on (and similarly for the substitutes that came on and then turned around to leave) - violating 3-7-3.

The second one could easily be a false start on the offense. While the center hadn't placed a hand on the ball, the abrupt motion of the linemen could conceivably be simulating action at the snap (7-1-7(a)) or an action intended to cause B to encroach (7-1-7(b)).

Or just toss a USC on the coach and be done with the shenanigans.

HLinNC:
Play #1- Here's the problem with the illegal substitution.  Did the subs become players by rule?  Hard to tell if there was any communication between the oncoming players and the departing players.  I think we're better off with 9-6-4d (pretended substitution) and flag it for Illegal Participation.


Play #2- Can't have encroachment, snapper didn't have his hands on the ball.  I don't consider that movement abrupt.  Hard to tell if the linemen have their hand(s) below their knees or not. 

bossman72:

--- Quote from: HLinNC on July 26, 2021, 09:09:08 PM ---Play #1- Here's the problem with the illegal substitution.  Did the subs become players by rule?  Hard to tell if there was any communication between the oncoming players and the departing players.  I think we're better off with 9-6-4d (pretended substitution) and flag it for Illegal Participation.
 

--- End quote ---

If there wasn't communication, how would the players on the field know to leave?

HLinNC:
1) They saw the "punt team" come onto the field.
2) Pre-arranged play by the HC.

I'm not saying this isn't some hinky BS pulled by the team but as to the letter of Illegal Sub under 3-7-3, I'm not sure it would meet the definitions of player and replaced player.  Wouldn't you rather use 9-6-4d and pop them with 15 for Illegal Participation for pretended sub anyway?  Given the circumstances that we see in the vid, and not being on the field to hear what was going on, I think it is actually the easier case to make under the rules.

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