Author Topic: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?  (Read 3077 times)

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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« on: August 18, 2021, 02:06:11 PM »
So do the new BBW rules simply boil down to:

1.  Both players must be in the zone at the snap
2.  Both players must be on the LOS at the snap
3.  1st motion after the snap must be to immediately initiate the BBW
4.  Therefore, player can only BBW a player directly opposite or in gap on either side

Comments, improvements?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2021, 02:18:12 PM »
Nope. That’s it. Easy peasy.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2021, 04:18:43 PM »
By jove, he's got it.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2021, 05:04:26 PM »
Sometime takes awhile, but eventually?   ;D
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2021, 06:24:07 AM »
I always heard even a blind hog could find an acorn once in a while.  :sTiR: LOL

Offline Badger1

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2021, 08:06:40 AM »
So I am the right guard in a normal spacing formation.  I have no defensive player over me or in the gap between me and the center.  The center has a defensive player directly in front of him.  We both want to double team him by going low below the knees to prevent a chop block.  I intend to perform my block immediately at the snap.  Your saying I am too far away to block below the waist against a player lined up directly in front of a lineman who is immediately next to me?  The block can only be made against someone in your gap or lined up in front of you?

Offline bossman72

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2021, 08:19:14 AM »
So do the new BBW rules simply boil down to:

1.  Both players must be in the zone at the snap
2.  Both players must be on the LOS at the snap
3.  1st motion after the snap must be to immediately initiate the BBW
4.  Therefore, player can only BBW a player directly opposite or in gap on either side

Comments, improvements?

I think you can easily cut someone head up on the guy next to you... assuming normal (approx 6-8 inch) splits.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2021, 08:21:09 AM »
I think we are saying it would be a stretch. If he's long enough and agile enough to get to that player without having to take a step to get there, you might rule it legal. but if he has to take a step to get there, the initial action is the step, not the block. if the nose were to take your side and try to shoot the gap, then that would be more clear. but if he takes the other side, then it's too far.

Offline SDR

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2021, 09:14:31 AM »
I know it's not the gospel, but I often look to the Reddings Study Guide for assistance.  On this subject, in the 2021 Addendum to the 2020 Guide, it says "[e]ven though a lineman is in the zone, if he rises or takes a step back at the snap, he cannot block low.  He may take a forward or lateral step as he lowers his torso to initiate the block.  He may then take a second step as he initiates the contact.  If the contact is not made by the completion of the second step, the block is illegal. In most cases, a block of a head-to-head opponent will be legal.  A block of an opponent lined up in the adjacent gap or opposite an adjacent teammate in the zone may be legal in a normal offensive formation; however, if the offensive formation has wide splits, the block is likely illegal.  The initiation of the block and the contact must be a continuous motion."  I think this description of a legal BBW in the FBZ is helpful, and seems consistent with the added language of subsection (c) in Rule 2-17-2.   

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2021, 09:24:45 AM »
Yes. I agree

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2021, 09:31:05 AM »
He may take a forward or BACKWARD PASS step as he lowers his torso to initiate the block.

Gotta love the filter there...

The guidance I've seen generally allows this as well. If you take a forward/sideways step *while starting the low block*, it's legal. If you have to change directions after the snap, it's not "immediate" and therefore illegal.

Can you block low on the guy who is head up on your neighbor? Sure, but you can't take a step to get to him *and then* start the low block. You might find yourself with a face full of dirt and completely missing your block if he's far enough away.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2021, 03:43:45 PM »
So I am the right guard in a normal spacing formation.  I have no defensive player over me or in the gap between me and the center.  The center has a defensive player directly in front of him.  We both want to double team him by going low below the knees to prevent a chop block.  I intend to perform my block immediately at the snap.
  In Ohio you are good.

I thought 2-3 foot splits were normal.

Immediate does not mean that one or two steps are illegal, maybe even three, but there cannot be a hesitation.

Initial act.  Must go low, cannot pop up or step back.






Offline KWH

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2021, 12:08:55 PM »
So do the new BBW rules simply boil down to:

1.  Both players must be in the zone at the snap
2.  Both players must be on the LOS at the snap
3.  1st motion after the snap must be to immediately initiate the BBW
4.  Therefore, player can only BBW a player directly opposite or in gap on either side

Comments, improvements?

Here is my comment AND improvement:

4.  Therefore, player can only BBW a player directly opposite or in gap on either side

YOUR #4 is not part of the rule.
Restated: There is no restriction on who can legal receive a BBW as long as the meet the requirements of YOUR 1, 2 and 3 have been met
SEE everything that you CALL, but; Don't CALL everything you SEE!
Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a great ball game!

Respectfully Submitted;
Some guy on a message forum

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2021, 01:00:59 PM »
Quote
Therefore, player can only BBW a player directly opposite or in gap on either side

True, its not in the rule but by practical application it pretty much how it has to happen EXCEPT if the outside gap player is outside the FBZ then it would not apply.  i.e. The uncovered side tackle or tight split TE in the FBZ may not be able to reach to the outside gap opponent based on where they are in relation to the FBZ.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 01:46:37 PM »
Here is my comment AND improvement:

4.  Therefore, player can only BBW a player directly opposite or in gap on either side

YOUR #4 is not part of the rule.
Restated: There is no restriction on who can legal receive a BBW as long as the meet the requirements of YOUR 1, 2 and 3 have been met
Good point. Question, practically speaking, how far can a lineman move and still be considered in the act of “immediate, initial action?”


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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2021, 02:12:24 PM »
Guidance we're getting is that the players must be heads up or in the gap and first motion must start low.  ie:  no slide step left or right to get a player head up on a teammate.  We've been told to remember the primary rationale for the rule change was to eliminate the ambiguity of saying the ball must be in the zone for the BBW to be legal yet the QB is in shotgun out of the zone.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 02:15:30 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2021, 03:28:39 PM »
Quote
Guidance we're getting

Pretty much the same for us here.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2021, 05:35:01 PM »
Again, not in Ohio.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2021, 05:35:40 PM »
Again, not in Ohio.
Noted


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Offline Preaching Zebra

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2021, 02:53:52 PM »
So just to clarify this, you can be in a 2,3,4 point stance as long as it is immediately you can block below the waist.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2021, 05:48:04 PM »
So just to clarify this, you can be in a 2,3,4 point stance as long as it is immediately you can block below the waist.

Yes, the stance of the team A lineman no longer matters in determining legal or illegal.  I like the Redding Guide 2021 update that was posted above in this thread:

"[e]ven though a lineman is in the zone, if he rises or takes a step back at the snap, he cannot block low.  He may take a forward or BACKWARD PASS step as he lowers his torso to initiate the block.  He may then take a second step as he initiates the contact.  If the contact is not made by the completion of the second step, the block is illegal. In most cases, a block of a head-to-head opponent will be legal.  A block of an opponent lined up in the adjacent gap or opposite an adjacent teammate in the zone may be legal in a normal offensive formation; however, if the offensive formation has wide splits, the block is likely illegal.  The initiation of the block and the contact must be a continuous motion."

It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline Badger1

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Re: Is 2021 BBW Really This Simple?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2021, 10:19:45 AM »
I know that we have previously discussed in detail the recent rule change for blocking below the waist in the free blocking zone at the snap and who is eligible to be blocked by position.  I periodically view a website called MIBTonline.com that on Sept 15th had an interesting discussion on this and it may be valuable to younger officials.  Hope you enjoy the website as it has a play of the week in which they discuss rulings.