FCS Quarterfinal game

[ElvisLives]

I noticed some really good officiating in the FCS quarterfinal game - SHSU vs. NDSU. A punt landed in the field of play, bounced a couple of times, and then was clearly beyond B's goal line when a Team A player leaped from the field of play, reached over the goal and batted the ball back into the field of play. The B calmly dropped a spot marker in the end zone, and continued to observe. The S also continued to observe, and they both allowed play to continue, with Team A eventually securing the ball around the 3 yard line. Once in possession, they calmly sounded their whistles, and the B signaled touchback. Although technically, this isn't a touchback, it has the same effect, so signaling TB isn't a disaster. More on that later. Then there was a brief discussion regarding an illegal formation foul by A, initially announced as "declined," but then a little more discussion and a correction that the penalty would be enforced at the 20. Good work to get this right.

6-3-11 is a special case of illegal touching, which puts the ball at the B-20. To be a touchback, the ball actually has to become dead behind B's goal line, which it didn't. But, not a crisis, at all.

[Legacy Zebra]

Then there was a brief discussion regarding an illegal formation foul by A, initially announced as "declined," but then a little more discussion and a correction that the penalty would be enforced at the 20. Good work to get this right.

I disagree. The penalty should have been declined and it should be 1/10 @ B-20. You can’t take the illegal touching and the penalty enforcement. Years ago 6-3-11 was an exception to this, but that exception was removed somewhere around 2015. Team B’s options are decline the penalty and take the ball at the B-20, accept the penalty enforced at the previous spot and replay 4th down, or enforce the penalty where the subsequent dead ball belongs to Team B, which is the B-3.

[Kalle]

This sounds like A.R. 6-3-11-V, the result being exactly what LZ said.

[ElvisLives]

Legacy is right on, and shame on me for not recognizing the correct result. The huge irony is that I gave the exact logic for the correct ruling. Yes, Team A penalties may be enforced at the spot where the dead ball belongs to B. In the given example, though, the spot where the dead ball belongs to B is actually the B-3 (or wherever Team A “downed” the ball). The artificial spot of illegal touching for A’s batting in B’s end zone is the B-20 - which is not the spot where the dead- ball belongs to team B. So, as Legacy correctly reminds us, Team B can elect to take the ball at the spot of illegal touching, which, in this case is - artificially by rule - the B-20, OR they can have the penalty for Team A’s illegal formation enforced at the previous spot and repeat the down, or at the dead-ball spot (B-3 + or -). They don’t get both the illegal touching spot AND the penalty.
Thanks for making this correction, Legacy.

[Romanlongoria]

Can someone please clarify:  IF during a scrimmage kick the ball, untouched by Team B, crosses the plane of the end zone but has not touch the ground in the end zone, AND a team A player is airborne and has not touched the ground in the end zone, bats the ball back into the field of play, THEN the ball remains live. Team B would then have the option to take the ball at the 20, given illegal touching by A in the EZ, or at the dead ball spot.  Is this correct?

[Legacy Zebra]

Yes that is correct. But it is not dependent on the Team A player being airborne. He could be standing 5 yards deep in the end zone when he bats the ball and it would still remain live as long as the ball never touched the ground in the end zone.

[dammitbobby]

Am I going crazy then, in that in this scenario in the NFL, it would still be a live ball, no touchback until possessed on the ground (or similar)?  I am positive I've seen players do the whole 'Leap in the air, bat the ball from the EZ to a teammate standing at the 1' thing, with the ball downed at the 1. 

[Legacy Zebra]

Also correct. In the NFL, if the Team A player is airborne over the end zone when he touches the kick, the spot of touching is where the player went airborne. If he is touching the ground in the end zone or is airborne from the end zone without first reestablishing himself in the field of play, the ball is dead and it is a touchback.

[ElvisLives]

For gosh sakes - until/unless you get to the NFL, pay NO attention to what is happening with regard to rules when watching NFL games (or NFHS, for that matter), if you are working NCAA rule football. It will only mess you up.

Hard enough to keep NCAA rules straight.

[JDM]

For gosh sakes - until/unless you get to the NFL, pay NO attention to what is happening with regard to rules when watching NFL games (or NFHS, for that matter), if you are working NCAA rule football. It will only mess you up.

Hard enough to keep NCAA rules straight.

 

[dammitbobby]

For gosh sakes - until/unless you get to the NFL, pay NO attention to what is happening with regard to rules when watching NFL games (or NFHS, for that matter), if you are working NCAA rule football. It will only mess you up.

Hard enough to keep NCAA rules straight.

Completely agree - was just trying to understand the difference... when I have to explain that to a coach, telling him 'that's only allowed in the NFL' is a lot easier than trying to explain the actual rule to him.

[JasonTX]

Completely agree - was just trying to understand the difference... when I have to explain that to a coach, telling him 'that's only allowed in the NFL' is a lot easier than trying to explain the actual rule to him.

"Coach,  you and I both aren't making enough money and today isn't Sunday,  for that rule to be used."