Author Topic: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight  (Read 4422 times)

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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2020, 09:52:55 AM »
The wiser course of action would be to suspend the game if a decision was reached to stop and let the governing body sort it out.

Personal safety is a GENERAL (and PRIMARY) concern regarding EVERYONE (Game Officials, Players, Coaches, Cheer Leaders, Spectators, Passers By from BOTH sides).  Forfeiting, or suspending, a game for legitimate "Safety" concerns is a serious, but prudent, response if/when circumstances merit such decisions.  Either are "Administrative Decisions" subject to review and potential, subsequent, modification.

Judgments on such decisions should involve consideration of the specific circumstances, the potential, and risk, for possible escalation and/or continuation or repetition of the behavior responsible.  Such discussions, where possible, should involve consultation with appropriate Administrative personnel from BOTH schools.

However, the ultimate decision, as to the general safety of continuation of the contest, at that time and location, are addressed in NFHS: 1-1-6, advising, "The referee's decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game." 

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2020, 12:45:07 PM »
You are under no obligation to finish any game if you feel unsafe.  In this case, I think it was an isolated incident and the player was removed.  What a sad statement about our society today. 


Last I heard, he got up and was walking around.

Also: not a playoff game, just playing for a playoff spot.

In a situation like this, what are the crew’s options? Can they say ‘see ya, we’re out’ without repercussions? Or is there an obligation to finish the game? At what point does game administration become involved? If they walk, is it a forfeit o up to the administrators to hash out?

Genuinely asking. I hope I am never in a situation such as this.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2020, 12:54:07 PM »
I put this mostly on the coaches.  They must know they have a hot head playing for them and they are continuing to let him play.  I would very much suspect he's shown this disrespect before, as it shown in the soccer incident.  The win at all cost mentality among coaches is rampant and a bit disgusting.  Certainly, not all are like that, but it seems to be much more common now.  If I hear anyone moan about how this is just a kid or they shouldn't punish the rest of they players by removing them from the playoffs, I think i'll  :puke:

Offline justbill13

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2020, 03:27:00 PM »
HLinNC.  I stand corrected.  I was not focused on the forfeit part of it.  I was mainly stating I would not be making a decision unilaterally.  The entire remaining crew would get a voice in whether we were to continue or not.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 03:28:50 PM by justbill13 »

Online JasonTX

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2020, 03:59:49 PM »
At our game yesterday the security seemed triple the size we normally see.  I wasn't counting the officers but it seemed like there were 2 officers per official when we were moving on and off the field.

Offline Official_21

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2020, 05:13:47 PM »
The thing is what about security at stadiums at school which have the press box readily accessible to anyone in the stands (IE At most, if not all private schools).

Any unauthorized person could run up to the press box if they have a beef with TASO assigned clock operators and a similar incident occurs? As clock operators, we are part of the crew as well, but it seems like to me, in the above situation, we are just as vulnerable as you are on the field.
Or if you are at one of the bigger stadiums, you could be taken down by someone when going down at half-time to get feedback from the R/crew.

No matter how small the chance, the chance is there that it could occur to us clock operators as well.

In closing, will this stop me doing a job I honestly enjoy doing? No of course not. All I want is to feel safe while doing the job I enjoy, is that too much to ask?

Online JasonTX

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2020, 07:29:21 PM »
The thing is what about security at stadiums at school which have the press box readily accessible to anyone in the stands (IE At most, if not all private schools).

Any unauthorized person could run up to the press box if they have a beef with TASO assigned clock operators and a similar incident occurs? As clock operators, we are part of the crew as well, but it seems like to me, in the above situation, we are just as vulnerable as you are on the field.
Or if you are at one of the bigger stadiums, you could be taken down by someone when going down at half-time to get feedback from the R/crew.

No matter how small the chance, the chance is there that it could occur to us clock operators as well.

In closing, will this stop me doing a job I honestly enjoy doing? No of course not. All I want is to feel safe while doing the job I enjoy, is that too much to ask?

What is your dress attire when you go to games?  I would not wear anything that identifies me as an official.  I'd try to blend in with the crowd if going down at halftime.  Be aware when exiting so nobody can identify you as being the clock operator.  Pretend as if you were a maintenance person or something.

Offline Official_21

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2020, 07:45:27 PM »
What is your dress attire when you go to games?  I would not wear anything that identifies me as an official.  I'd try to blend in with the crowd if going down at halftime.  Be aware when exiting so nobody can identify you as being the clock operator.  Pretend as if you were a maintenance person or something.
Usually I wear a TASO polo shirt and a nice pair of khakis (or other colored pants), in other words business casual. I also always wear my TASO ID, just so stadium/security personnel know I am authorized to be on the field/in the press box.

Given that this happened, I may change attire if I work a playoff game & next season. I have other nice polos I can wear to games and keep my ID in my pocket until needed.

Offline Etref

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2020, 09:10:55 PM »
.  Pretend as if you were a maintenance person or something.

 LOL
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Official_21

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2020, 02:30:07 AM »
Pretend as if you were a maintenance person or something.
There is one small problem with that...I am not mechanically inclined  ;D  LOL

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2020, 07:02:32 AM »
Back to the incident. I am not an attorney, and I don’t play one on TV. The player was “arraigned,” which, I believe, means that he was formally charged with this crime, and he had the opportunity to enter a plea. Since he was released on bond, does that mean he pled “Not Guilty” and is awaiting trial? I know it is every citizen’s right to plead ‘not guilty,’ but, in this case  - really?


Offline HLinNC

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2020, 08:08:11 AM »
Arraignment is a formal reading of the charges against a defendant

No one in their right mind pleads guilty at an arraignment.  And yes, if he posts bail he's free to go as long as he continues to appear for his court dates.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2020, 08:30:00 AM »
Arraignment is a formal reading of the charges against a defendant

No one in their right mind pleads guilty at an arraignment.  And yes, if he posts bail he's free to go as long as he continues to appear for his court dates.

Based on the clear video evidence, this guy’s mental stability was already in question.

Offline Etref

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2020, 11:40:09 AM »
There is one small problem with that...I am not mechanically inclined  ;D  LOL

I had this image of you in the booth with this huge key ring on your belt,
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2020, 01:40:17 PM »
Arraignment is a formal reading of the charges against a defendant

No one in their right mind pleads guilty at an arraignment.  And yes, if he posts bail he's free to go as long as he continues to appear for his court dates.

CLEARLY, this player needs some professional counseling, and perhaps the Court can provide that assistance.  However, the School and coaching staff JUST AS CLEARLY failed to provide the guidance this student needed, as evidenced during both soccer & football.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2020, 02:30:38 PM »
Back to the incident. I am not an attorney, and I don’t play one on TV. The player was “arraigned,” which, I believe, means that he was formally charged with this crime, and he had the opportunity to enter a plea. Since he was released on bond, does that mean he pled “Not Guilty” and is awaiting trial? I know it is every citizen’s right to plead ‘not guilty,’ but, in this case  - really?

The state still has to prove he's guilty of whatever he's charged with and you darn well want that -- for him or anyone else. Whether everyone in the world saw it or no one saw it; innocent until proven guilty, due process, and all that jazz. He has rights and they must be respected, although he as an individual doesn't necessarily have to be.

There's no doubt he will be convicted if this goes to trial, which it won't. Any and all video of the incident will be admitted -- all it takes is 2 or 3 foundation questions from the prosecuting attorney to the individual who shot the video (it doesn't get admitted automatically contrary to popular belief) and essentially anyone on the field who saw the incident can verify what is seen on the tape happened. The Referee can testify and say, "yeah, I was hit" or "yeah, I saw him coming at the last second and was hit..." and its all done. There aren't any real applicable defenses to the what he's charged with (i.e. provocation or something else). Going to trial means almost sure jail time, more legal fees, and a HACKED off school district. So his attorney will recommend a plea deal -- likely a Class B misdemeanor, probation, community service, fine, and maybe restitution of any out of pocket medical expenses if there were any. The Referee may pursue civil actions as I discussed earlier (and I hope he does). To get the community service time or fine amount down, the kid may choose to spend, say, 4 weekends in the local jail, but I seriously doubt it will rise to anything more severe than that. There's too many other people in jail and if covid continues, that won't even be an option -- especially in that area.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2020, 05:41:48 PM »
I hope the prosecutor has the courage and sense to get some jail time for this guy. They simply have to send the message that this type of behavior will have serious consequences, and no amount of ‘sorry’ or ‘mistakes of youth’ will let you off the hook. Jail time, fine, and restitution. Community service is simply not taken seriously by these kids. Yeah, I hope the victim seeks civil damages. Keep him in trouble long enough that no FBS team will have anything to do with him. And no hope of the NFL.
That is the message that needs to be sent.

Thanks for the obviously knowledgeable info, Joe. Yeah, reality may set in and he gets a slap on the wrist. Let’s hope not.

Offline fudilligas

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2020, 08:01:24 AM »
And you wonder why officiating numbers are going down????

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2020, 08:30:55 AM »
and maybe restitution of any out of pocket medical expenses if there were any.

A question by the uninformed (and, thankfully, inexperienced): When you say out of pocket expenses, that, obviously, means any insurance - including TASO's, would take care of the costs above deductible (and other exclusions). But, if there is a conviction, wouldn't the insurance company(s) have cause to recover their costs due to a criminal act? This was no 'accident.'
Probably moot, because you ain't gonna "...get blood out of a turnip...," as they say.  Can that be tied to future earnings (i.e., if he gets a fat NFL contract)?
Ah, just pondering. Just a totally ugly situation all around.

The worst punishment he could get would be total and permanent ostracization by his classmates and (former?) friends, especially his teammates, for screwing them out of the playoffs. Sadly, in today's environment, even officials are viewed as "the man," and any form of rebellion or retaliation against "the man" with even the most egregious acts of violence against people and property are supported by many elements of society. So, his friends and colleagues will probably rally around him - somehow, he got robbed. Sad.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2020, 09:31:38 AM »
The worst punishment he could get would be total and permanent ostracization by his classmates and (former?) friends, especially his teammates, for screwing them out of the playoffs. Sadly, in today's environment, even officials are viewed as "the man," and any form of rebellion or retaliation against "the man" with even the most egregious acts of violence against people and property are supported by many elements of society. So, his friends and colleagues will probably rally around him - somehow, he got robbed. Sad.

Sad, but unfortunately true.  The saddest part is that it seems more, "otherwise rational" people have become willing to actually "Buy into the BS" and ignore (tolerate, excuse, minimize) such behavior, which ONLY encourages more of it.

Offline Etref

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2020, 11:37:19 AM »
Most insurance policies exclude intentional acts.

Not just internet fantasy, I am an insurance adjuster
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2020, 01:51:47 PM »
 Any recovery for damages is likely to come if the referee files a lawsuit against the school district.  They will have the deepest pockets and liability insurance to cover them.  Given the student has some sort of history and was inexplicably still participating in HS athletics, I imagine there will be a settlement.  The 18 year old student likely doesn't have any assets.  I'm not sure if a lien could be filed against any furture earnings.  A settlement will probably negate that.  Wouldn't get much from someone whose career arc is presently trending towards "would you like fries with that" any way.

Offline Official_21

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2020, 10:55:56 AM »
I had this image of you in the booth with this huge key ring on your belt,
Well I do have a couple of key chains, but not that many keys to attach to them  ;D

Offline Clear Lake ref

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2020, 06:41:57 PM »
Most insurance policies exclude intentional acts.

Not just internet fantasy, I am an insurance adjuster

Likewise.

Offline Etref

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Re: Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2020, 07:35:26 PM »
  :thumbup
" I don't make the rules coach!"